Free advice.

[Zee]

Once again, I like the idea of a read-only board for non-users of The Tax Book (professionals, or not). Those purchasing a product should have an additional benefit.

I also believe the content of the questions would be enhanced limiting them to tax professionals. Most would involve real-time practice problems.

Yes, each of us can skip questions from non-professionals but it does require more reading and effort to determine the source of the question. So, there would be a time-saving.

I believe turbo-tax has their own question/answer board for users. If not, there should be. We should not be enabling the company that has reduced the profitability of tax preparation & accounting services for many small providers.

[Bees Knees]

fitzpats

I don't do business taxes, and have a fairly simple tax return that if I have questions, I research them. If I come on here, I have a fairly simple question, or I have research that would be backing my idea when I am looking for support. Much like what you all are doing amongst each other. I don't see why if I don't have a couple little letters after my name, I shouldn't be allowed to enhance my knowledge. As for me not being a tax pro...technically, I am an income and sales tax auditor, so for me to have additional knowledge of federal business taxes would be beneficial.

Is there anything we can do to get you to hire the services of a tax professional? If not, what is our incentive in helping you?

We ask questions and give answers amongst ourselves to make our job easier. I don’t do taxes as a public service. I do taxes to earn a living. If you think taxes are too difficult to figure out for yourself, either hire the services of a professional, or vote for politicians who are in favor of tax simplification.

Would you sacrifice some of your working hours educating people on income and sales tax auditor issues as a public service? For free? Or do you want to get a paycheck for the job you do?

Why should we be any different?

[Jesse]

Would you sacrifice some of your working hours ....................
Why should we be any different?

This is what I often ask people who think I'm out of line charging for "simple tasks" such as adding up a ton of receipts or research for that "quick question".

If your boss is in need of some extra help are you willing to do it off the clock? No you expect your time be compensated in your paycheck so why shouldn't I be compensated for my time?

The very people that tell me they would be okay to help the boss are the very people that whine because they don't get paid enough, lack benefits or the boss is making millions and they think they should receive more, more, more!

[Nashville]

belated St. Fitzpatricks Day

I don't see why if I don't have a couple little letters after my name, I shouldn't be allowed to enhance my knowledge. As for me not being a tax pro...technically, I am an income and sales tax auditor, so for me to have additional knowledge of federal business taxes would be beneficial.

Fitzpats, if you are a tax auditor, your presence on the board should not be objectionable. In fact, there are many times you can bring as much to the table as you carry away.

What appears to be creating the consternation are many people looking for free advice, whereas as professionals we spend many hours annually researching material, many hours and dollars attending seminars, and work into the wee hours of the morning trying to perform due diligence for our clientele. Whereas most of us enjoy helping other people, it becomes obvious from their conversation that some of these people are in very bad need of "hands on" professional help, yet they keep posting in an effort to avoid spending money.

Of particular disdain (at least from my point of view) are those who buy TurboTax to avoid patronizing us to begin with, and then come to us for free advice after they realize the product is really just a $40 data input and calculating device.

Our expertise is not something we are "born" with, although some of us are more inclined than others to gravitate to the profession. As the saying goes, it is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. We spend many hours in research and training, then watch TV commercials where a box says "Pay us a lousy 40 bucks and you can put these guys out of business." As professionals we know better, but the general public does not. When new clients ask me to go behind their TurboTax return, my average savings is between $800 and $1000.

Fitzpat, stick around. You obviously have state and local experience, and that is part of our job too. You can contribute as much as you receive.

[fitzpats]

Is there anything we can do to get you to hire the services of a tax professional? If not, what is our incentive in helping you?

We ask questions and give answers amongst ourselves to make our job easier. I don’t do taxes as a public service. I do taxes to earn a living. If you think taxes are too difficult to figure out for yourself, either hire the services of a professional, or vote for politicians who are in favor of tax simplification.

Would you sacrifice some of your working hours educating people on income and sales tax auditor issues as a public service? For free? Or do you want to get a paycheck for the job you do?

Why should we be any different?

If things get too difficult for me, I either research my answer or I would hire a tax professional. I would rather have something hanging on someone else's head than on mine. However, you're posting items to a public forum. One where you know it's public, and you read the public forum to answer questions. Whether this is for another professional or for a non-professional does not matter. If you want to keep answers from someone who is doing research, use the PM function. If you want to help, which is what you're doing, post in forum.

I just want to know one thing though. If I had three letters after my name, would it make a difference to you about the following question:

"I have a 1099Q form for a QTP disbursement. Can I offset the earnings by a fee charged for reducing the refund because so-and-so dropped the class after the 100% refund deadline and only received 75% of the tuition cost as a refund? I have no 1098T ."

Also, would it make a difference if I said I had a client's 1099Q, or if I had said I have my wife's 1099Q?

[Bees Knees]

I just want to know one thing though. If I had three letters after my name, would it make a difference to you about the following question:

"I have a 1099Q form for a QTP disbursement. Can I offset the earnings by a fee charged for reducing the refund because so-and-so dropped the class after the 100% refund deadline and only received 75% of the tuition cost as a refund? I have no 1098T ."

Also, would it make a difference if I said I had a client's 1099Q, or if I had said I have my wife's 1099Q?

Yes because my perception of the situation would be that me spending 15 minutes to look up the answer may in turn be reciprocated by you doing the same for someone else, who in turn does the same for someone else, and so on, and so on, until something eventually comes back to helping me.

If you choose to pretend, I have no way of knowing, unless your ignorance of tax law reveals your true identity.

I’m not looking for an even playing field. But I would like someone to at least know how to bunt when the third base coach gives the sign.

In any event, Nashville makes a good point in that you sortof are already in the business. Stick around and help us with sales tax issues for our clients. We’ll give you all kinds of free tax advice in exchange.

[Black Bart]

Touche!

John / Your response was so graceful that I'm embarrassed about bein' so rough on your post. You make several good points and please accept my apologies for goin' overboard with you about my demand that the dirty, rotten, low-down, inexcrupulous rats be (pick one) tarred and feathered/ drawn and quartered/ banished.

JohnH /
Bart: I lifted some parts of your post for response - I don't think I altered your meaning...I understand your frustration, but my experience is slightly different. I've gotten lots of business...by answering questions gratis...more than I've given...sometimes the answer is "yes, you can file it that way/ I'll look that up & get back to you/Your situation is too complicated for an off-the-cuff answer. We would need to make an appointment and I'll have to charge you for the time." It's a matter of choosing when, where, and to what extent to give answers. I think the same principles apply on this forum.

Those are all good reactions to varying situations, John, and actually, I am frustrated about the situation 'cause shortly before I did my original post a guy walks in, I'm standing by the front door distracted by something else going on, and he waves a schedule D under my nose with that "one quick question" routine. I shoot him an answer and first thing you know we're knee-deep in a ten-minute capital gains discussion. He gets it through his head and walks out while I'm (as usual) feeling used, but consoling myself with "Oh well, he looked like a poor boy." Glancing out the window, I see him cruise off astride a $17K Harley-Davidson.

>>...I feel that responding to these brazen requests in terms of "have a little fun with them" is mischaracterizing the situation, rationalizing it, and, in the end, an excuse to make it palatable. These people aren't joking with you; they're quite cynically serious about getting good and free tax advice. <<<

I thought one of the most humorous & entertaining responses to a non-pro question was one you posted in the past couple of days and I had a good laugh reading it. You made several valid points, but surely you were trying to be humorous in the process, weren't you?

Yes, yes, I was indeed trying to "have a little fun with them" in that post, but I had forgotten all about it and you have now skewered me with my own sword (I guess it's one of those things that I sometimes think other people should not do, but are just fine if I do).

>>> As for harm done, each one we assist probably tells several others to get answers here for which they'd normally have to pay their local tax preparer (maybe one of us). By going along quietly, we are to some extent enabling these moochers to take money out of the pockets of our colleagues. <<<
...the responses...will bring out the fact that the poster's situation is...complex...and we strongly advise that they see a local tax pro. If they do, we have helped them and a colleague. If they don't, then they and our colleagues are in no better or worse situation than if they had never posted.

I don't agree on this one. I think they'll do it themselves no matter what we say and if our tax advice keeps them from making mistakes on a complex return, then they'll be encouraged and probably never go to a professional in the following years.

>>>...what should we do about freeloaders? <<<<

In my opinion, nothing should be done about freeloaders. They should be allowed to post and we should govern our responses based on our reactions to their post. I'm not a big fan of censorship, except when people are being uncivil & violating the rules of the forum.

After reading all the posts on Bees' "sticky" thread, I'm unsure of what to think. The "read-only" option for non-subscribers sounded good, but at the same time, it would probably have a chilling effect on spontaneous board discussions (some of those dopey questions turn into "good for everybody" mini-seminars). On the one hand I'd like the freebie-seekers stopped, but if volume drops, then subscriptions probably follow and, as Brad said, this board is a business and a business has to make money if we are to continue enjoying this forum. So...I don't know which way to vote. I guess it's just gonna have to be up to TMI and I'm going along whichever/whatever they decide.

[JohnH]

No apology needed

Bart:
Thanks for the apology, but none needed or expected.
Don't be embarrassed about being rough on me - I'm pretty thick-skinned.
If I ever take offense to anything I'll tell you straight up.

Besides, it's better that all of us vent on this forum than in front of our clients - venting here won't cost us any business (unless our clients get access to the forum. Uh-oh, maybe my attitude about non-pros on the forum is about to change!)

[gman]

free advice

I recieve a lot of calls and probably give much more free advice than I should. I believe we should limit our board to tax professionals. We spend a lot of money on continuing ed, licensing fees and software to just give so much knoweldge away for free.....

[abby]

If you haven't heard this song...

If you haven't heard this song, well, it might make you smile - maybe even guffaw, who knows?

I often give free advice to friends and neighbors, and assure them it's worth every penny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TkuZ5oI9uY

[Acownt4it]

That is great. I may have to pipe that through the speakers in my office. Thanks for sharing.

[JohnH]

Now you've gone & done it!
I've been humming it for the past hour & can't get it out of my mind.

[thomtax]

I have used a variation of this for a good while.

"I'm going to give you some free advice, and it is worth what it is going to cost you."

[BP.]

Love it . . . thank you, Abby!

[SueBaby]

If you haven't heard this song, well, it might make you smile - maybe even guffaw, who knows?

I often give free advice to friends and neighbors, and assure them it's worth every penny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TkuZ5oI9uY

So cute-- had to laugh out loud.