Notary & Federal Regs

[Donanita]

Just got back from a NATP workshop which covered ethics & circular 230. It seems as a notary that I would not be able to perform notary services for a client if I do their tax return.
Do any of you agree with this? I don't see how doing a car title transfer or POA for someone has anything to do with the preparation of their tax return. Guess I went to the expense of getting my notary licenses for a non-tax client only,which are few to none.

[Bees Knees]

Cir 230, § 10.26 Notaries. A practitioner may not take acknowledgments, administer oaths, certify papers, or perform any official act as a notary public with respect to any matter administered by the Internal Revenue Service and for which he or she is employed as counsel, attorney, or agent, or in which he or she may be in any way interested.


Seems pretty clear to me.

Keep in mind. Ethics as it relates to our profession is not what you would think it is. It is not about "doing the right thing," or being moral, or being honest. Ethics is about following a set of rules dictated to you by the IRS and whatever professional association you happen to belong to.

[Black Bart]

All services?

...with respect to any matter administered by the Internal Revenue Service...

Sounds to me like they're only talking about not notarizing documents that have to do with IRS -- and other matters (car sales, deeds, various local and county matters, etc.) would be okay.

[Jiggers]

Notaries

Sounds to me like they're only talking about not notarizing documents that have to do with IRS -- and other matters (car sales, deeds, various local and county matters, etc.) would be okay.

Black Bart, that is the way I read it also.

I no longer provide a notary service as most clients expected it to be free. And the minimal fees that a nortary can charge in Texas didn't pay the bills.

[Uncle Sam]

Notary & Federal Regs

I interpret it the same way Black Bart does also.
For non-tax related matters why would it matter who notarizes a form?

[Donanita]

Yes

[QUOTE=Bees Knees]Cir 230, § 10.26 Notaries. A practitioner may not take acknowledgments, administer oaths, certify papers, or perform any official act as a notary public with respect to any matter administered by the Internal Revenue Service and for which he or she is employed as counsel, attorney, or agent, or in which he or she may be in any way interested.


Seems pretty clear to me.

As clear as mudd. What does a non-business car title transfer have to do with preparing a tax return, or anything else that is not related to a tax return,wills,poa,deeds,ets.

[S T]

Always a Concern

Becoming licensed in Calif as a Notary is a joke! Between time spent, fees including the mandatory class, and what we can charge. Over the last term it has cost me more than $500 in fees, and I think I have income of about $50-$60.

So mine comes up again in 2008 and once again I am going to opt to non-renew.

As far as I can determine we can notarize anything that does not relate to a tax return, so car transfers, poa's other than IRS, etc.

Sandy

[Donanita]

Notary Income

We have notary offices in Louisiana that will do auto transfers as the DNV does. It cuts down on half the time spent at the DNV . There are some notaries that have satellite offices in WalMart stories and they do very well. One notary that I know has 4 employees that work in her office and she makes around $75,000 a yr. In La a notary can be pretty profitable. Depends on how far you want to go with your work.

[S T]

Calif Restrictions

We are more restricted in Calif, however, the "loan signing" business for notaries has taken off in the last few years, and I know that several of those in the various counties are earning $70,000 +++++.

There are days and months that I think about that as opposed to Tax Prep, but I always remain at the Tax Preparation and Accounting.



Sandy

[taxmandan]

We are more restricted in Calif, however, the "loan signing" business for notaries has taken off in the last few years, and I know that several of those in the various counties are earning $70,000 +++++.

There are days and months that I think about that as opposed to Tax Prep, but I always remain at the Tax Preparation and Accounting.

Sandy

Restricted??? In Oregon, Notaries are forbidden by law to charge for the service.

[DTS]

Notary

There are days and months that I think about that as opposed to Tax Prep, but I always remain at the Tax Preparation and Accounting.

Sandy,

You are so better at tax prep and accounting than notarizing docs. So, glad for all of us here that you came to your senses!!!

Dennis

[veritas]

Oregon fees

I used to be a notary. To much work now for the fees you can charge.

Maximum Amount of Notary Fees Permitted to be Charged
Notaries who charge for their service may charge less than the amounts listed, but must not charge more.
A schedule of fees must be prominently displayed or handed to customers prior to notarization, so they have
the right of refusal if they do not wish to pay.
• $5 for taking an acknowledgment;
• $5 for taking a verification upon an oath or affirmation;
• $5 for certifying a copy of a document;
• $5 for witnessing or attesting a signature;
• $5 for protesting commercial paper, except a check drawn on an insolvent financial institution in
which case the fee is $0;
• $1 for administering an oath or affirmation without a signature;
• $1 for taking a deposition, each page.

[Not true]

Restricted??? In Oregon, Notaries are forbidden by law to charge for the service.

194.164 Maximum fees for notarial acts; exception; rules. (1) The Secretary of State shall adopt by rule a schedule fixing the maximum fees that a notary public may charge for performing notarial acts. The schedule shall include, but not be limited to, maximum fees for the following notarial acts:

(a) Acknowledgments.

(b) Oaths or affirmations without a signature.

(c) Verifications upon oath or affirmation.

(d) Copy certifications.

(e) Protesting commercial paper, except that no fees shall be allowed for protesting a check because of the insolvency of the financial institution upon which the check was written.

(2) A notary public may charge an additional fee for traveling to perform a notarial act if:

(a) The notary explains to the person requesting the notarial act that the fee is in addition to the fee specified under subsection (1) of this section and is not required by law; and

(b) The person requesting the notarial act agrees in advance upon the amount of the additional fee.

(3) Notaries shall display an English-language schedule of fees for notarial acts, as specified under subsection (1) of this section. [1989 c.976 §24; 1997 c.631 §424]

[Joe Btfsplk]

It isn't worth it

Black Bart, that is the way I read it also.

I no longer provide a notary service as most clients expected it to be free. And the minimal fees that a nortary can charge in Texas didn't pay the bills.

Once, years ago, I got a notary license. At that time I had an office with high visibility and I used to get people coming in all the time with pre-signed papers for me to notarize and they would get mad when I explained that they had to be signed in my presence.

I didn't mind doing it free for clients, but the small fee certainly didn't justify doing it for the public. Now that I work at home, I don't want any one, even clients, coming for notary service. They might take up an hour's time and keep me from leaving the house while I waited for them to show up.

[Black Bart]

My experience is

about the same as many of y'all, except I alway vow to let it die and then...I renew. It puts me in mind of that nursery rhyme about a little girl..."when she good, she was very, very good and when she was bad, she was horrid." The notary seal helps to score good points with very grateful, big-shot clients in an emergency (I'm unsure how much actual cash that's worth in the long run). Downside; about 1/3 bring in pre-signed stuff ("What do you mean you can't stamp it? I went to a lot of trouble to look him up and get it signed for you") or pop's out-of-state ("Don't worry, it's just a general power-of-attorney; daddy won't care and we won't say anything about it").

I've probably lost more fees making people mad than anything else. Talk about tough competition -- at one time there was a used car dealer down the street who had a seal that wasn't even his. He signed the seal name; stamped anything and everything for all comers (no ID-no questions). When he died, his partner kept it up until the FBI showed up one day investigating a stolen-car ring and that stopped that. One of their former clients, irritated because I refused a pre-signed title, complained that "When Slick Nick was in business, a person could get something done (which was absolutely true)."

Sandy and Dona -- about that $70K (CA) and $75K (LA) -- that is just amazing to me. How much can y'all charge per item there? We get $5 here and I bet I don't take in over $100 a year.

P.S. I can't think of anything I've ever notarized for IRS.