College student 2018 federal income tax

[spanel]

He is my grandson and I was posting a theoretical question.

Most of us would agree its not wise to give advise to non clients.

The fact that you are not preparing either the clients return or the clients parents return, you have NO idea what the answer might be.

This answer is impossible to give as we do not know if the taxpayer in the case will be claimed or not (it could go either way, I would lean towards not being claimed as he made $18,000). However I do not believe either situation is wrong per say.

Chris

[Rapid Robert]

Most of us would agree its not wise to give advise to non clients.

if the taxpayer in the case will be claimed or not (it could go either way, I would lean towards not being claimed as he made $18,000). However I do not believe either situation is wrong per say.

I don't see a problem with asking for advice regarding the relative of a tax pro. Someone can be a non-paid professional preparer for a client.

What's not wise is to give careless advice,period. I see two problems with your comment:

* his earnings have no direct bearing on how much of his own support he provided

* to say in effect that it's OK to go "either way" (treat as a dependent or not) is wrong. He either meets the requirements or he doesn't, it's not an election. He must correctly answer the question on his return as to whether or not he can be claimed as the dependent of another taxpayer.

[spanel]

I don't see a problem with asking for advice regarding the relative of a tax pro. Someone can be a non-paid professional preparer for a client.

What's not wise is to give careless advice,period. I see two problems with your comment:

* his earnings have no direct bearing on how much of his own support he provided

* to say in effect that it's OK to go "either way" (treat as a dependent or not) is wrong. He either meets the requirements or he doesn't, it's not an election. He must correctly answer the question on his return as to whether or not he can be claimed as the dependent of another taxpayer.

I'm not sure I agree with that at all. You going to tell me if the 20 year old made $50,000, you would still list him as a dependent?

Chris

[Rapid Robert]

You going to tell me if the 20 year old made $50,000, you would still list him as a dependent?

If he did not provide more than half of his own support, and met the other requirements, such as being a full time student, yes. I would perform some due diligence as to how a full time college student could earn $50K (not related to the support question).

[spanel]

If he did not provide more than half of his own support, and met the other requirements, such as being a full time student, yes. I would perform some due diligence as to how a full time college student could earn $50K (not related to the support question).

There are many students who "work" their way through school and $18000 is sufficient to do so with no help from anyone. One could also be a full time student for a semester and work from say May - December full time as well to earn much more than than.

My point is, we cant assume either way. A student making $18,000 could be claimed or could not be claimed... but you can't ignore that fact they made $18,000 in your determination.

Chris

[Rapid Robert]

My point is, we cant assume either way. A student making $18,000 could be claimed or could not be claimed... but you can't ignore that fact they made $18,000 in your determination.

Yes, you can. Support depends on costs for living expenses, and who paid them. Income has nothing directly to do with it. Paying an expense is not dependent on whether you had any income. For each person who may possibly be providing support, only where the money goes matters. Where an individual got the money they spent on their own or someone else's support is irrelevant.

[Rapid Robert]

Where an individual got the money they spent on their own or someone else's support is irrelevant.

So, for example, if you decided your due diligence required examining the taxpayers checking statements, you would only need to look at withdrawals, deposits would be completely irrelevant and not even remotely helpful to the determination of support (unless there is deliberate cheating going on, such as mis-classification of gifts, etc).

[spanel]

So, for example, if you decided your due diligence required examining the taxpayers checking statements, you would only need to look at withdrawals, deposits would be completely irrelevant and not even remotely helpful to the determination of support (unless there is deliberate cheating going on, such as mis-classification of gifts, etc).

Deposits would be completely irrelevant? Your kidding right?

Kid makes $18,000 - deposits $18,000
Parent makes $80,000 deposits $10,000

Kid Spends $20,000 out of his account.

Who gets to claim kid? Your telling me your only looking at the $20000 out and not the in? How do you know whos money is being spent? Doesn't even really matter. Your not auditing the ins/out anyway, lets be real. Your asking who is supporting collect student. Without looking at the kids income, your just peeing in the wind. This particular example is a judgement call, period. The more the kids make, the less likely hood the parent is capable of supporting more than half of the child. In my opinion, $18000 could go either way, still leaning towards kid claiming self. $25000, no brainer, kid is claiming himself as an example.

Chris

[Rapid Robert]

Your asking who is supporting collect student. Without looking at the kids income, your just peeing in the wind.

Please refer to §1.152-1(a)(2), which makes it clear that the original source of funds used by any individual to pay for any individual's support, specifically whether or not it is taxable income, does not matter in determining support. It's simply a matter of what did it cost and who paid it, period. I've repeated it several times already, so won't bother any more.

[New York Enrolled Agent]

Who gets to claim kid? ... How do you know whos money is being spent? Doesn't even really matter. Your not auditing the ins/out anyway, lets be real. Your asking who is supporting collect student. Without looking at the kids income, your just peeing in the wind. This particular example is a judgement call, period. The more the kids make, the less likely hood the parent is capable of supporting more than half of the child. In my opinion, $18000 could go either way, still leaning towards kid claiming self. $25000, no brainer, kid is claiming himself as an example.

Chris

Chris - since this student could possibly be a dependent only if he a qualifying child, the test is not whether the parent gave more than half the child's support but did the child provide more than half his own support. §152(c)(1)(D). The son cannot be a qualifying relative as he fails the test in §152(d)(1)(B).


Probably unlikely, but suppose the son saved all the money he earned - makes a huge difference.


Without all the "figures", it is virtually impossible to make a determination. Always facts and circumstances.

[spanel]

I completely agree. I just dont see how you can "ignore" what the son makes in determining if he can be claimed.

Chris