Senate Immigration Bill

[veritas]

Projected cost for the bill is 24.5 billion in additional earned income credit over 10 years.

So the IRS must come up with some more goofy ways to collect from you and me.

[Snaggletooth]

Immigration Bill

...hey folks, not a terribly interesting topic, but Veritas deserves a better response than this. After all, he answered a boring post from me, so I'll post a reply to this so his topic does not sink into oblivion just yet.

The overwhelming cost of this Bill will be borne by the States. It is the States, and not the Federal govt who must fund Schools, Prisons, most Health Care, and all the services run amuck financially as a result of uncontrolled immigration. This bill assures that Ross Perot's "Giant Sucking Sound" can be heard in your own home town and not just on the border.

What amazes me is that most of us are more concerned about hearing about this dork who says he murdered the Ramsey girl, watching O J drive away in his white Blazer, hearing more "breaking news" about the Holloway girl from Aruba that doesn't really go anywhere or do anything other than to keep some people glued to the TV through dozens of commercials. We're not interested in the crooks in Washington -- it's like the media intentionally blows up things to divert our attention.

If you've read this far, here is an absolutely perfect example. On the VERY SAME DAY that O J drove his vehicle in front of patrol cars, pharmaceutical giant E I LILLY bought 51% controlling stock of the largest HMO in the US. You probably never read it, even on the back page of your paper if it was even there.

I have to ask: "Which of the two events, OJSimpson or EILilly will affect YOU the most?"

Maybe you see my point.

[S T]

Well

Illegal Immigrants are already costing taxpayers with healthcare, illegal id's and bogus social security numbers, not paying into the Fica/Mcare system, unemployment, over the years non valid EIC refunds, most don't have auto insurance, so if there is an accident, we that carry insurance claim under our uninsured motorist provision which we also pay for and more. We just don't pay for all of this in our tax bill, but we do pay and even with a "Bill" will still probably continue to pay and probably pay more.

Not sure if the Senate Bill is the right answer, but the issue needs to be addressed. Calif over runneth!

Actually I watched the CNN Special on Osama Bin Laden tonight and the terrorist threats, not the "nut" that claims he was involved in the Jon Benet murder. Trying to figure out if the Airlines are safe for a trip after 10/16.

Sandy

[Black Bart]

Illegal Immigration

Most Americans agree -- they want it stopped! But both parties want them: Republicans-- for cheap labor / Democrats--on humanitarian grounds and eventual votes. Unfortunately, the general public doesn't have as much influence as Eli Lilly.

Arkansas is being swamped -- 50% increase during the last five years (of course, it's okay with Tyson and the other chicken-pluckers). Last year, three van-loads came to the revenue office near here applying for ID cards (to access American social services) by using purchased birth certificates and attempting to pass themselves off as those persons.

I favor many of the president's policies, but I don't think he really wants it stopped, as he seems more interested in his "guest worker" policy than enforcement -- 5,000 National Guard troops isn't really enough to do the job and a "short" fence will simply move the flow from one area to another. If the Israelis can build a fence from one end of the country to the other, I don't see why we can't. Some will say it's impractical, it's cruel, it won't work, etc., etc. and I don't believe any of that at all. A large, tall fence will discourage any normal human being, especially if there are enough troops on the other side of it. In any case, it would be a lot cheaper than furnishing social services to another ten to twenty million people.

Too, as Snag said, the states are picking up that tab. But the administration isn't really interested in saving taxpayers' money. It's interested in saving money for big business through favors and favorable legislation. My wife's prescription was $180 a few months ago, but shortly after the Medicare drug bill kicked in, it jumped to $210 (I assume to recoup Lilly's discount "loss").

Veritas: If I don't pull a rabbit out of a hat by October 15th, they are going to collect some of it from me.

[Bjorn]

social services

I like the idea of not providing social services to illegals. Now let's get rid of welfare for the tramps and trash as well. No doublt I'll be labeled out of touch. I don't mean tramps or trash in the negative.

How much less could be collected from me if the gov't did not have to give away earned income credit dollars?

Forgive me, I'm a little ticked at gov't today.

[DaveO]

I'd love to see the IRS do away with the EITC. The function of the tax system should be solely to raise the money needed for the operation of a small and constitutionally restrained government. It has become a tool of social engineers and self-appointed do-gooders. At least we dodged the increased minimum wage bullet. Imagine the illegal immigration we’d have if we increase the minimum wage by 40%.

[Black Bart]

Minimum wage

I don't agree with you on that. MW now stands at $5.15 per hour. It takes a full hour's work to buy a measly two gallons of gas or two hot dogs. I know people say it keeps menial labor from being employed in the first place, but it seems to me that if you are going to hire someone to do a job, they should be paid a decent living wage for the time you employ them even if they do sub-standard work and must be fired later. The price of everything is outrageous now -- it's not just gas and people can barely live at that wage rate which hasn't been increased in many years. After all, we keep raising our tax prep rates almost every year.

As for EIC, I've complained about it for years and, though it's widely abused, I've also seen it do a significant amount of good for some deserving people. If an ignoramus blows his rent payment on a late model car, the kids will still arrive at school now and get there on time instead of sitting on the side of the road in a broken-down junker. Also, if they have a few decent things growing up (even if the old man is a bum) they may not resort to crime, which is so costly to society, at a later time to get what other people have.

I know the argument is that, if I want to make a contribution it's up to me, but I shouldn't force others to join me. Still, somebody always needs to take the first step in things like this, and who's going to if government doesn't?

[sea-tax]

I don't agree with you on that. MW now stands at $5.15 per hour. It takes a full hour's work to buy a measly two gallons of gas or two hot dogs. I know people say it keeps menial labor from being employed in the first place, but it seems to me that if you are going to hire someone to do a job, they should be paid a decent living wage for the time you employ them even if they do sub-standard work and must be fired later. The price of everything is outrageous now -- it's not just gas and people can barely live at that wage rate which hasn't been increased in many years. After all, we keep raising our tax prep rates almost every year.

As for EIC, I've complained about it for years and, though it's widely abused, I've also seen it do a significant amount of good for some deserving people. If an ignoramus blows his rent payment on a late model car, the kids will still arrive at school now and get there on time instead of sitting on the side of the road in a broken-down junker. Also, if they have a few decent things growing up (even if the old man is a bum) they may not resort to crime, which is so costly to society, at a later time to get what other people have.

I know the argument is that, if I want to make a contribution it's up to me, but I shouldn't force others to join me. Still, somebody always needs to take the first step in things like this, and who's going to if government doesn't?

BB say it ain't so . Tell me your not going to the dark side. You're not going uh lib**l. It is like a 4 letter word so I have to use the **. Look in washington state the MW is like $ 7.15 or something an hour. It might even be $7.30. The point is that people make choices in life and when they do, why should I or you have to clean up after them. You will get no sympathy from me. My parents came to this country with no money , little clothes, couldn't speak English and 8th grade educations. They never took a handout, they worked hard, saved, taught themselves English and made a successful life for themselves. Now why can't someone who is raised in this country , who gets free education , free assistance do the same?

[DaveO]

What is the true minimum wage?

This is an article I recently wrote and published on-line regarding the minimum wage. A full and honest debate requires facts. REally, how many people do you know working for minimum wage?

As regular as the summer heat there is the annual push to raise the federal minimum wage. Despite the fact that hardly anyone works for minimum wage, only about 3% of full time employees earn only the minimum wage, the proposed increase is again being touted as a means to help the working poor. After all, we are told, a family of three with a single wager earner working full time at minimum wage would only earn $10,712 per year. Now I know that the three-member household being portrayed here is not a married couple with a single child but instead a single mother raising two children on her own. So I will confine my analysis to that situation.

So it begs the question then, what is the true minimum wage? Let’s move past the issue of wage for a moment and instead focus on income. That is after all, how the poverty level is determined, not by wage but by income. According to the data published in the Feb. 2006 Federal Register the 2006 HHS poverty guideline is $16,090 in annual income for a family of three. So at first look the full time minimum wager earner would fall short, but remember we are looking at income not wage.

At $10,712 annual income a family of three would qualify for $399 per month in food stamps for an extra $4,788 per year. Upon filing her tax return she would receive an additional $4,290 from the federal earned income tax credit (EITC) for a total annual income of $19,790, or an average hourly income of $9.51. Well above the HHS poverty guideline.

The proposed increase to $7.25, assuming full time work would result in an annual income of $15,080. The family would still qualify for an annual allotment of food stamps of $4,788. The $4,290 of EITC would still be there, added to by $650 in refundable child tax credit for total annual income of $24,808, or an average hourly income of $11.93.

A study by Richard V. Burkhauser from Cornell University and Joseph J. Sabia of the University of Georgia estimate that an increase in the Federal minimum wage will cost American business 18.26 billion dollars. They further find that only 3.8% of that money will find its way to Families headed by single women and that only 12.7% of the increase would go to poor families at all. Remember students and persons otherwise working full time seeking a little extra money hold many minimum wage jobs. The same study also found the median wage of the top wage earner in a poor family was $9.25 per hour, well above the proposed minimum wage. A focus on income rather than wage is the only way to target poverty relief to those who actually live in poverty.

If the fact that an increase in the minimum wage will do little to help those in poverty and will actually hurt the least employable workers the most does not convince you, consider this. We have barely been able to dent the flow of illegal immigrants into this country seeking low wage employment. What do you think will happen when we increase the minimum wage by 40%?

[veritas]

If the wages are to low where you live. Move! Good grief if we had the mentality today back in the 19th century there would have been no Oregon Trail.

[Snaggletoof]

Minimum Wage = Lots of Folks

DaveO, I don't know where you live, but it's not Middle Tennessee. We have some wealthy areas where you can't find help for $10.00/hr. but in most of our state there are plenty of people working minimum wage. And not just teenagers working in fast food joints.

If there weren't millions and millions of people working at no more than minimum wage, then why did the Republicans mobilize their congressional delegations to vote it down?

Do away with EIC if you must but raise minimum wage accordingly. If you want to keep minimum wage at $5.15 and do away with EIC, be prepared for the following:

1) Forget selling used cars at anything about 50% over what they are now bringing.
2) If you have rental property for $900/month, better cut that to $500.
3) If you are a doctor and collect only 70% of your billing, better drop that to 40%.
4) This list can go on and on. If you think just poor people suffer, better think again.

You folks seem to think that poor folks owe their existence to the benevolence of some rich slob who gives them a job. Stop long enough to figure out how the rich slob got to be rich to begin with.

[Black Bart]

But, but, but...sea-tax -- my

BB say it ain't so . Tell me your not going to the dark side. You're not going uh lib**l. It is like a 4 letter word so I have to use the **. Look in washington state the MW is like $ 7.15 or something an hour. It might even be $7.30. The point is that people make choices in life and when they do, why should I or you have to clean up after them. You will get no sympathy from me. My parents came to this country with no money , little clothes, couldn't speak English and 8th grade educations. They never took a handout, they worked hard, saved, taught themselves English and made a successful life for themselves. Now why can't someone who is raised in this country , who gets free education , free assistance do the same?

buddy! My pal! How quickly we forget! And it seems like only yesterday that we were comrades-in-alms; together nobly fighting the good fight against the venal leftist jainen. Uber-liberal, eh? What hath God wrought (to quote A. G. Bell, the...um... telephone guy, I think)?

Well anyway, speaking for the Darth Vader wing of the board's "dark-side" (now I know how the dirty, rotten, low-down, inexcrupulous Ted Kennedy feels), I still think MW ($5.15 here) is too cheap. Yes, I gathered from the impressive list of business credentials you presented the other day, that you are a go-getter and a self-made man; which is fine. And I acknowledge the achievements of your courageous parents. But many others who come from similar circumstances are not made of the same tough fiber you and your parents are. And they've got kids. And if there's a little trickle-down money left after dad drinks up the lion's share of the loot, they maybe they'll get some of it and take that French class or buy that French horn. Any scrap or a dollar's worth of something good and decent might be the thing that inspires them to try and follow in your accomplished footsteps. Money isn't everything and it certainly can't cure poverty; however, I believe it helps.

It's a shot in the dark, alright. But I think it's a shot worth taking.

[sea-tax]

BB I have not forgotten . I just have trouble feeling sorry for people who whine about their situation rather than doing something. And as long as you never call me a crook like others here have we will remain friends. Now give me some stories I need a pick me up

[Black Bart]

I was just kidding with

BB I have not forgotten . I just have trouble feeling sorry for people who whine about their situation rather than doing something. And as long as you never call me a crook like others here have we will remain friends. Now give me some stories I need a pick me up

the "my buddy, pal, etc." stuff. We don't have to agree on everything to be board neighbors.

[Unregistered]

agreed sea-tax