Areas Of Interest

[Black Bart]

Expansion.

>>
Black Bart, please expand...Are you saying that my vote...should not be considered significant because it is too significant?

Yes.

Take it easy, California. I know you're still ticked off about Josh and it's evident that you've read a book (I didn't have a clue about idioms and irregular whatcha-ma-callits) but, personal attacks (real or perceived) aside, I think his original conclusion about the poor state of our public schools was pretty well on the mark. It is disheartening.

[jainen]

my way of thinking

>>I think his original conclusion about the poor state of our public schools was pretty well on the mark.<<

Oh, I agree with that completely. California schools are horrible--we finally had to go with a charter school just to get some decent credits. The really weird thing was that, when it came time for college apps, the private schools also turned out to be cheaper!

But I can't laugh at unlucky students, especially the ones who go back to college to try to pick up what they missed. If Josh could stop window shopping for the best syntax and political labels and such, he might actually learn something.

The main point of his classmate's essay was, "Everybody had some type of ignorant come past there way but how did you dell with it." That's a pretty eloquent summary of Josh's post, to my way of thinking.

[Black Bart]

Votin' 'n' quotin'

But I can't laugh at unlucky students, especially the ones who go back to college to try to pick up what they missed. If Josh could stop window shopping for the best syntax and political labels and such, he might actually learn something.

"Everybody had some type of ignorant come past there way but how did you dell with it." That's a pretty eloquent summary of Josh's post, to my way of thinking.

Before we get into this, would you mind casting that (pick one) significant/insignificant vote? Don't check that last box either -- and speaking of ad hominem attacks -- doesn't your last paragraph's "eloquent summary" meet that standard?

Look, you have some good points and you made me do some thinking about laughing at the unlettered. I made an "ad hominem" wisecrack to "Jopetho," who posted something similar under the "Do I owe you anything" thread. Although it occurred to me that English might be second to him, the "joke" was too good to pass up and his website plug gave me an excuse. It was wrong and I'm sheepish, but I don't think Josh meant anything personal in his comments. The astounding incongruity of such work in a lit class (so bad that, at first, you yourself thought English was his second language) prompted a normal observation and common-sense reaction we've all experienced -- it was a little bit funny and a little bit sad at the same time. But why couldn't you expect exemplary work in that class? Is it necessary to splash a PC whitewash over the decay?

You seem to be trying to "spin" Josh's comments into something other than what they are. I don't or can't understand these questions you asked and statements you made:

"What do you pretend is the dominant language...of Washington, D.C.?"
Well, this is America. It's English I assume. If not -- what?

"Why do you feel someone else's language errors are disheartening, but your own are just some glitch of external technology?"
Josh made two spelling errors, but there's no question about the thrust of his message. The other post is disheartening because, although it stops short of nonsensical and can be "doped out," in all honesty, I believe you'd have to say it's woefully inadequate.

"Achebe's not an easy read" and "Do you have anything to say about Achebe yourself?"
The subject of his post wasn't Achebe or degree requirements -- it was the language used to discuss his work.

Maybe this is where the views of left and right come into play. In your favor; I admit I hadn't even considered that here's an illiterate kid admirably striving to improve himself. We conservatives probably do need to give that sort of thing more weight than we do. And "our friends across the aisle" might consider raising their "standards" bar for the "bad childhood" bunch in order to avoid dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

[jainen]

to be significant

I vote for the 1120.

a) Nobody else did, so I can pretend to be my own man.
b) Nobody else did, and it shouldn't be overlooked.
c) It is the subject I know least of and therefore need the most of.

As the 24th vote, it is still too significant to be significant

[Black Bart]

No fair again/

That was a really long post I put up. That's all you're gonna say?

[jainen]

Of course not

>>That's all you're gonna say?<<

Of course not, but you are the one who insisted, "Before we get into this... "

>>You seem to be trying to "spin" Josh's comments into something other than what they are<<

Sure, I was pickin' on him. That's because I think he is fundamentally wrong. Even though I agree that schools are poor, you can't prove it with language. I love modern English. It supports a vast array of dialects and jargons and cants. How they talk in Bangalore is every bit as valid as the Texas twang, and the halls of Congress communicate no better than the ghettos across town. It is arrogant and ignorant to brag about ones own "dominant language and culture that should be recognized by all."

>>I believe you'd have to say it's woefully inadequate.<<

No, in all honesty I don't have to say any such thing. The sentence I quoted is insightful poetry whose odd syntax skillfully emphasizes the writer's point. Shall I parse it a little for you?

Putting an adjective form in place of a noun is a fine, powerful literary technique--you find it all through Shakespeare. The ironic use of it with "ignorant" is a stylistic triumph. I've never read the first novel of Chinua Achebe, but I'll bet the student captured its soul in that one erroneous word.

Then she misspells two words, and in both cases subs in another actual word that teases us with ambiguity. First, "there," a vague trope that calls up both the time and space meanings of "past," and is especially jarring because we see that if she properly spelled it "their" it would not agree in number with it's antecedent "everybody," a grammatical error that everybody makes.

But my favorite word in the whole sentence is "dell." It evokes all kinds of emotions from our oral traditions of story and song dating back to the ancient druids. Yet it also stands for the most modern communications, networked computers. See how it trips up our laughing colleague: some type of ignorant came past his way, and he didn't deal with it very well at all. His excuse for his own mistakes is that spell-check was off. What a shallow approach to language!

[Black Bart]

jainen

Let's move the debate over to the "disheartening" thread. I'm getting lost switching back and forth between threads, even if I did start it here.