Surgent CPE & RTRP Exam Prep in general

[erchess]

I wonder if anyone has any experience with Surgent CPE and in particular their RTRP course which I am thinking of recommending to a friend. Any other recommendations re prep for the RTRP test would be most welcome as well

[Possi]

Exam Matrix

Exam Matrix was really great because it gave you direct feedback on every single question. Right or wrong, and WHY it was right or wrong, and places to go to read more about it. The practice tests were truly STUDY guides.

[Koss]

RTRP Exam Preparation

I don't have experience with Surgent, so I don't have an opinion.

I had never heard of Surgent, so I did look at their website. The product is priced from $199 to $299, depending on whether you want a hardcopy book, and access to webcasts, and some other choices.

Everything is relative, but my knee-jerk reaction is that what they offer is a little pricey. The various options seem a bit complicated. And a "350-page" course textbook feels like overkill. How much of it is real content, and how much of it is fluff?

The choice of program turns heavily on one's preferred learning style.

I'm an enrolled agent, so I don't have to do this stuff. But I am serving as a coach and mentor for someone who is preparing for the RTRP exam, so I am familiar with some of these products.

The Tax Book is now advertising an RTRP Exam Prep course for $107, but it's not available until June.

http://www.thetaxbook.com/tr_rtrp.asp

I have taken several of the other CE courses offered by The Tax Book over the last few years. They were all very good, and the pricing is reasonable.

The courses offered by The Tax Book are old-fashioned correspondence courses. The price you pay gets you a hardcopy book, grading of the exam, and the CE credit. Only the exam is on the web. The course material itself is not available online.

The content is outstanding. But the format may not be right for everyone. If your attention span is a function of upload and download speeds, and you want an "interactive" experience, with colorful graphics, and quizzes that make different sounds when you get the right or wrong answer, then The Tax Book courses are not what you are looking for.

On the other hand, if you were born before 1985, or if you like the idea of a textbook that you can read while you are a passenger in a car, without having to worry about glare or the battery life of your tablet, then these courses are perfect.

That being said, the reality is that the RTRP exam itself is taken on a computer. And I don't see anything in the description of the The Tax Book's prep course that suggests that it will include any type of online practice exam. It says that it includes "simulated test questions." But that's not the same as an online practice exam designed to simulate a complete test, with time limitations.

To me, that's one of the most valuable components of any RTRP test prep program. As noted in Possi's post above, it is also valuable to have an explanation associated with each question, so you can understand why you got it right or wrong.

The guy I am coaching is using an RTRP test prep platform offered by APlusCPE.

It includes a set of online interactive lessons, and a practice exam module with questions that change each time you take it. Like most other RTRP prep programs, it also comes with a final exam that provides 10 hours of CE.

Limitations: No hardcopy textbook or study materials. Everything is online, and it cannot be printed. The lessons are an interactive, click-through process, and printing is suppressed. So you can't access anything unless you have a computer with an internet connection.

I've looked at it, and I've taken the practice exam a couple times. It's a good program. The practice exam module does contain an explanation for all questions, whether you answered right or wrong.

The price is unbeatable. For just $44.95, you get the exam prep course, and the two-hour ethics course, and the three-hour tax update.

Like The Tax Book, it's not for everyone. If you've only been doing taxes for a couple years, and you rely heavily on the software to get through a return, and you're looking for a comprehensive study program, you may want something more than this.

But if you've been doing taxes for many years, and you feel like you know your stuff, and you just need a refresher, or something to guide your studying, this is a great product at a fantastic price.

Here's a screenshot of the table of contents for the program:

http://sgaweb.net/apluscpe_rtrp.pdf

The website is www.apluscpe.com

BMK

[erchess]

TY Possi and Koss

I am trying to make a for real RTRP who can do well as someone's first year employee out of someone who knows absolutely nothing about taxes and accounting. I was thinking of running her through the NATP New Associate course and then the NATP RTRP Prep course and then her continuing education.

[FEDUKE404]

Koss info on TTB RTRP book

I had previously been looking at the info for the $107 book that apparently will be available on June 15th.

http://www.thetaxbook.com/tr_rtrp.asp

The information states 10 CPE credit hours, but the book itself ("View Larger Image") shows only 4 credit hours. Am I missing something??

I've been around way too many years, and feel the "refresher" is pretty much what I need....just to clear the cobwebs. So the APlusCPE looks very appealing. Do you get only one shot at the test for your $44.95, or how does that work?

Thanks as always for your clear and meaningful posts!

FE

[Koss]

Exam Prep Courses

FEDUKE404 wrote:

The information states 10 CPE credit hours, but the book itself ("View Larger Image") shows only 4 credit hours. Am I missing something??

I'm pretty sure that's an error. I don't work for TTB. But the course is still in development, and I think what happened is they created the book cover from a template, and forgot to change the number of hours.

The IRS has explicitly authorized up to 10 credit hours for an exam prep course. So it has become the industry standard. Of course, there has to be enough material to support 10 hours of credit. But almost every competitor product out there carries 10 hours: Fast Forward, Surgent, RIA/Checkpoint, etc.

I've been around way too many years, and feel the "refresher" is pretty much what I need....just to clear the cobwebs. So the APlusCPE looks very appealing. Do you get only one shot at the test for your $44.95, or how does that work?

There are two exams: the practice exam, which "doesn't count," simulates the IRS exam. It's 120 questions, and you're supposed to complete it in 90 minutes. The course exam, which provides 10 hours if you pass, is a bit shorter. But I'm not sure how many questions, or whether there is a hard time limit.

You can take the practice exam as many times as you want. If you don't pass the course exam, you can take it again until you do pass. For both exams, the questions change each time you take it. There are, however, two limitations to this. The course enrollment is only valid for one year. And I think once you have passed the course exam, the course is considered completed, and you no longer have access to anything.

So to maintain access to the practice exam, you might want to postpone taking the course exam until after you have actually passed the RTRP exam. But if you want the 10 hours to be applied to 2012, you have to take the course exam by 12/31/2012...

So it's not unlimited. If you plan on waiting until sometime in 2013 to take the RTRP exam, but you want the 10 hours for 2012, you'll only have access to the course and practice exam until the end of the year, or until you pass the course exam.

I still think it's a good deal for the price.

Full disclosure: I don't work for APlusCPE, and I don't get paid for recommending their product. However, I am an officer of a nonprofit organization that is exploring a possible business relationship with APlusCPE.

BMK

[jacobtaxbook]

Of course, I'm a little bias...

I would highly recommend our RTRP Exam Preparation course - which is on sale through 7/18 (Release date 6/15) for $107 and free shipping. You will receive 10 hours of CPE/CE credit after completing the course. Upon successful completion of our course, we guarantee you will pass the RTRP Exam issued by the IRS on your first attempt or we will refund your money. We know the goal is to take the test once, and we stand by our products.

For more information click here: http://thetaxbook.com/tr_rtrp.asp

You can order online here: https://www.thetaxbook.com/secure/placeorder.asp

Or you can email me at jacob@thetaxbook.com should you have any questions.

I would like to sincerly thank everyone for your participting on our message board. We truley appreciate your patronage.

[JG EA]

I am trying to make a for real RTRP who can do well as someone's first year employee out of someone who knows absolutely nothing about taxes and accounting. I was thinking of running her through the NATP New Associate course and then the NATP RTRP Prep course and then her continuing education.

I also am getting info for a new employee - but this one does know accounting. I just need a good source for tax prep instruction and to become registered this year.Do you know how much NATP New Associate course costs?

[Peachie]

I used Wise Guides

as my refresher course because they offered a nice refresher course that was very detailed.

There were practice exams, study guides, answers to what you got wrong, etc. The course was $59.

I took the exam on March 22 and got my congratulations letter March 28. However, I have received nothing from IRS and my account still shows I need to take the test.

I must emphasize that I found the exam to cover much of what I knew or should know. You do get a well rounded choice of questions and I found you have ample time to complete the test. Pub 17 didn't really help me as I found it cumbersome looking things up online. I don't remember there being an index which would have made the process a tad bit easier. Don't make your self nuts studying. Refresh-refresh-refresh and then take the exam.

I am now taking CE courses from ACPlusCPE. They have fantastic prices for all of their courses including the RTRP. The five additional hours I need only cost $15.

Good luck!

Peachie

[erchess]

Cost of NATP New Associate Course

They haven't said what it will cost this year but last year I think it was a little over $400 for one through four new associates.

[ruthc]

jacobtaxbook.....are you sure that everyone completing your course would get the 10 credits (even EA's)? I heard that only people taking the RTRP course and passing it would get the credits. Thanks for your input.

[Brad Imsdahl]

jacobtaxbook.....are you sure that everyone completing your course would get the 10 credits (even EA's)? I heard that only people taking the RTRP course and passing it would get the credits. Thanks for your input.

Everyone taking the CPE course and passing the online course test administered by TheTaxBook gets the CPE, just like any other CPE course offered by TheTaxBook. Passing the RTRP exam is another issue. TheTaxBook guarantees that if you pass the CPE course offered by TheTaxBook, then you will ALSO pass the RTRP exam. If you don't pass the RTRP exam on the first try, you get your money back, even though you still get your 10 hours of CPE for passing TheTaxBook CPE course.

No other CPE provider is offering that kind of guarantee yet. I might add that our RTRP prep exam course was written by an EA and an Attorney who took the RTRP exam and passed. They know what you need to study because they have already done it. They also have a unique perspective on the format of the material that you have access to while taking the RTRP exam. That too is incorporated into our RTRP exam prep course which should make it much easier to pass the RTRP exam.

[Possi]

dumb question

Everyone taking the CPE course and passing the online course test administered by TheTaxBook gets the CPE, just like any other CPE course offered by TheTaxBook. Passing the RTRP exam is another issue. TheTaxBook guarantees that if you pass the CPE course offered by TheTaxBook, then you will ALSO pass the RTRP exam. If you don't pass the RTRP exam on the first try, you get your money back, even though you still get your 10 hours of CPE for passing TheTaxBook CPE course.

No other CPE provider is offering that kind of guarantee yet. I might add that our RTRP prep exam course was written by an EA and an Attorney who took the RTRP exam and passed. They know what you need to study because they have already done it. They also have a unique perspective on the format of the material that you have access to while taking the RTRP exam. That too is incorporated into our RTRP exam prep course which should make it much easier to pass the RTRP exam.

At the risk of sounding like a dumb question, I'm doing this... Since I took and passed the exam, is this STILL a great way to refresh each year, and an affordable way to get 10 hours of CPE at the same time??

[Koss]

Possible Answer...

Since I took and passed the exam, is this STILL a great way to refresh each year, and an affordable way to get 10 hours of CPE at the same time??

The IRS FAQ contains the following information:

2. May a tax return preparer obtain continuing education credit for completing a Registered Tax Return Preparer competency examination preparation program? (posted 12/6/11)

A tax return preparer can obtain continuing education credit for completing an approved Registered Tax Return Preparer competency examination preparation program until December 31, 2013. A maximum of ten hours will be allowed and it will be qualified as a program under other federal tax law. Enrolled Agents and Enrolled Retirement Plan Agents will not receive continuing education credit for completing any test preparation programs.

The same page also says:

22. Will any providers who offer RTRP test preparation courses qualify for CE Credit? (posted 3/12/12)

See Standard 4. Until December 31, 2013, the maximum hours are 10 hours for federal tax.

Here's the link:

http://www.irs.gov/taxpros/article/0,,id=255497,00.html

It doesn't seem to matter whether you already passed the test. The credit hours are valid.

What's not entirely clear is whether an RTRP can get CE credit for an exam prep course in 2012 and 2013.

I'm sure this will get cleared up over time.

I am the CE program administrator for my local chapter of the Ohio State Society of Enrolled Agents. So I am deeply involved with this process, and I am very familiar with the rules. Some of the details have yet to be ironed out. Many of the answers to "frequently asked questions" on the IRS website were just posted on 03/12/12.

Some of it merely depends on how the program is packaged and marketed. The IRS is saying that an exam prep course will not count as CE after 12/31/2013.

But a provider could offer a course in 2014 that covers all the same material, without labeling it as an exam prep course. That course would satisfy all of the IRS criteria for valid CPE.

BMK

[Possi]

Thanks!

Great information!

I'd rather go to a live class for the interaction, but I found that studying for the RTRP alone, in my own time and quiet place, I learned far more than the live classes. I could focus on my shortcomings and skip over the things that really do not pertain to any of my clients.