Dependent Question

[S T]

I am having some difficulty in sorting this scenario.

Taxpayer (Mother also the Grandmother) Single earns approximately $ 60K

Adult son age 30 lives at home and only earned $ 2,174, so he would be a QR, and
Qualify taxpayer as HOH.

Here is where I am having difficulty

Adult son has a daughter (grand daughter of Taxpayer)– age 2 - he is not married to the mother of the daughter - the mother of the daughter lives at some other location with 2 other children as well.

Can the Taxpayer claim the grand daughter? That is the next question.

Grand daughter was NOT claimed by Mother - she filed HOH claiming only 2 other children. Mother’s income was $ 14,400.

Grand daughter does not reside in Taxpayer’s home full time during the year, possibly only half of the Time, if all visits and stayovers are counted, such as certain days, weekends, etc.

Taxpayer provides more than 50% of grand daughters support.

Can Taxpayer claim the 2 year old grand daughter as a QR and claim CTC

Thanks,

Sandy

[Jesse]

Count the nights, if the grandaughter did not live with Grandma more than 6 months I don't think she will be able to claim the Granddaughter as a dependent or the CTC.

Edit: If Grandaughter is a qualifying child of Mom she would not be a qualifying relative for Grandma.

[BP.]

Can Taxpayer claim the 2 year old grand daughter as a QR

No. If grandchild lived more than half the yr with her mom, which wasn't mentioned, then she is QC of her mom, and so she fails QR test for grandparent.

[veritas]

Hoh

The son must be a QC to qualify mom for HOH status. He is not (unless totally disabled) a QC. Son could be a Qualified Flake maybe. But that's another matter.

[Jesse]

But if Grandma can claim son as a dependent, although not a QC, he can qualify her for HOH, right?

[Lion]

Qf

I like the Qualified Flake designation!

[taxea]

bottom line is for the grandmother to take the 2 year old you are pushing the envelope. Whether or not the mom took her does not mean the grandmother can. If the child lived with the grandmother for more than 1/2 the year she still needs an 8332 from the mom.

[Lion]

8332

The 8332 is from the custodial parent to the non-custodial parent. The grandmother is not the parent. And, if the grandmother can claim, it's because she IS custodial, more than half the year. The custodial parent can NOT give away the dependent to anyone except the other parent via 8332. (Gee, just think of the black market in stolen and forged 8332s if just anyone could claim anyone with just a piece of paper! Talk about an active secondary market.)

[Gretel]

I am having some difficulty in sorting this scenario.

Taxpayer (Mother also the Grandmother) Single earns approximately $ 60K

Adult son age 30 lives at home and only earned $ 2,174, so he would be a QR, and
Qualify taxpayer as HOH.

Here is where I am having difficulty

Adult son has a daughter (grand daughter of Taxpayer)– age 2 - he is not married to the mother of the daughter - the mother of the daughter lives at some other location with 2 other children as well.

Can the Taxpayer claim the grand daughter? That is the next question.

Grand daughter was NOT claimed by Mother - she filed HOH claiming only 2 other children. Mother’s income was $ 14,400.

Grand daughter does not reside in Taxpayer’s home full time during the year, possibly only half of the Time, if all visits and stayovers are counted, such as certain days, weekends, etc.

Taxpayer provides more than 50% of grand daughters support.

Can Taxpayer claim the 2 year old grand daughter as a QR and claim CTC

Thanks,

Sandy

Sandy, here are my 2 cents:

I basically agree with your conclusions if 1/2 year test is met. HOH OK because it is a relative. Income irrelevant because no EIC involved. If son agrees there should be no problems. So Exemption CTC and HOH OK in my opinion.

[veritas]

A few dollars more

Son is not a qualifying person for HOH. He is too old. You may claim him though as a dependent under the qualifying relative rules.

If the grandchild lived in your client's home for more than half the year you would have a qualifying child that permits HOH.

[New York Enrolled Agent]

Son is not a qualifying person for HOH. He is too old. You may claim him though as a dependent under the qualifying relative rules.

There is no "age" requirement for HOH. §2(b) requires either a qualifying child or a blood-related dependent.

For a listing go to the chart on page 25 of Pub 17. In particular, look at the sixth box in the third column.

[veritas]

I was mistaken.

I did misread the qualifying person rules.

[JG EA]

I always have to thnk about this and read it all over again in the tax book each time!! But I'll add my 2 pennies that may or may not help,

I am having some difficulty in sorting this scenario.

Taxpayer (Mother also the Grandmother) Single earns approximately $ 60K

Adult son age 30 lives at home and only earned $ 2,174, so he would be a QR, and
Qualify taxpayer as HOH.

I also agree with dependency. If he lived there over 1/2 year I agree with HOH.

Here is where I am having difficulty

Forget the son now and concentrate
on the child.Pretend that is the only one you are concerned with.

Adult son has a daughter (grand daughter of Taxpayer)– age 2 - he is not married to the mother of the daughter - the mother of the daughter lives at some other location with 2 other children as well.

Can the Taxpayer claim the grand daughter? That is the next question.

Grand daughter was NOT claimed by Mother

The only thing your TP needs to do is see if she is the one to claim the child.

- she filed HOH claiming only 2 other children. Mother’s income was $ 14,400.

Grand daughter does not reside in Taxpayer’s home full time during the year, possibly only half of the Time, if all visits and stayovers are counted, such as certain days, weekends, etc.

So, not more than half that lets out the QC.

Taxpayer provides more than 50% of grand daughters support.

So then should she be her qualifying relative? Is the child someone else's QC? If not then your TP can claim. If she is someone's QC then she can not.

Can Taxpayer claim the 2 year old grand daughter as a QR and claim CTC

Thanks,

Sandy

[S T]

Thank Yous and Another Question

Jesse, BP, Gretel Thanks so much for posting your thoughts on the QR and HOH on the Son and the QR on the Grand child,

Lion, thanks for the 8832 post on this thread - this not a custodial parent issue, so no form 8832 to be obtained or filed iI am in agreement with you,

Veritas, thanks for your post as well, but you gave me some heart palpitations, and the “doubting Thomas syndrome” again

NYEA - Thank you for the direction to the HOH rules

JG - your thought processes are a lot like mine, and that is what I had tried to outline before posting - just got lost along the way and I , like you have to look up the rules each and every time on one of these scenarios.

The son is good for dependent under QR and qualifying T/p as HOH

Now on to the grand daughter issue, which is more complicated (at least for me)
I still have to establish 50% or more support, but what my question is now, what really qualifies this grand daughter as QC of the Mother which is not the Taxpayer - Taxpayer is the Grandmother

There is a footnote, under QR # 5 - not a qualifying child test,
The relative must not be a qualifying child of any taxpayer for 2009 - for this purpose, a person is not a taxpayer if he or she is not required to file a tax return and either does not file a return or only files a return to get a refund of withheld income taxes.

Does that also apply to filing a tax return to claim EIC – which is what the Mother of the child (grand daughter) did - keep in mind the Mother did not claim this child (grand daughter) on the Tax return.

Example – (I did not prepare the return by the way) Mother files HOH, claims two other children
Income $ 14,400 - std exemption is $ 8,350, claiming herself and 2 children (not the child in question) less $ 10,950 exemption - So no taxable income,
However the Mother would qualify for EIC, and possibly Addl CTC by filing a tax return

The question then is under # 5 for QR - is there a requirement to file a tax return? And by filing the tax return for EIC and Addl CTC for the other 2 children does this then make the “Grand daughter” in question a QC of the mother?

Thanks,

Sandy

[BP.]

keep in mind the Mother did not claim this child

Irrelevant to grandmother

person is not a taxpayer if he or she is not required to file a tax return and either does not file a return or only files a return to get a refund of withheld income taxes.

Doesn't sound like mom filed only to get a refund of w/h taxes- she filed for EIC & ACTC.

If child lived w/mom more the half the year, she is mom's QC. No exemption for grandmother. I don't see how son's approval is relevant.