Taxing times for tax preparers

[S T]

Oregon Preparers

Read this news article. http://www.webcpa.com/article.cfm?ar...d=29175&pg=ros

Oregon Preparers are very well received and viewed upon!

Sandy

[JohnH]

I'll answer you tomorrow around 5 am.
Right now I'm getting ready to take a nap.

[okie1tax]

Its unnatural, that's why. Besides, that is just when I finally get to "sleep" and quite tossing and turning.

[JohnH]

Hold on there - what's wrong with being able to move around at 5AM ?

[David1980]

My HRB contacts say that one of the primary reasons they lose workers is because the worker obtains a full time job.

It seems to me the main problem with the lack of tax prepares is the seasonality of the work. if they made taxes due like August 15th instead of April 15th we'd have the benefit of college students on summer vacation, but other than that group there really aren't any big groups looking for seasonal work.

[Black Bart]

Second the motion.

...To be honest, I like putting in more time at one time and then having a lot of the year to do other things that need to be done.

LT

I like that after-tax season part of this business too, LT. Only thing, you can never completely relax 'cause ever' time you lay back and get started watchin' cartoons (once heard a client say that), somebody pops up with a problem.

Anyway I'm scheduled to finish my June to-do list this month and (with apologies to ATG) hopefully louse around a little bit.

P.S. Scratch that -- I don't know what the heck I was thinkin' about with October 15th right around the corner.

[Davc]

California passed a law during 2008, to clarify previous legislation, that those who prepare tax returns or who EVEN ASSIST IN preparation of tax returns must complete education and register with CTEC. Exempt from the CTEC registration requirement are the federally authorized Circular 230 tax practitioners, EAs, CPAs, attorneys, etc.

This is explained in the Franchise Tax Board website "Tax News" archive for August 2008. The employees of a CPA, for example, are going to be exempt only if the CPA signs all the tax returns.

Which is different than the OR law I was citing.

[BHoffman]

empty-nester over-the-hill insomniac

LOL! Amen, brother!

Speaking of work habits, those early birds who view the mere fact that they are moving around at 5AM as something virtuous has always irritated me. This night owl is not able to function at that hour. I can put in a good 16 hour day when necessary, but it sure doesn't start until around 10AM.

[Black Bart]

Dear Prodigal Son,

those were some good points...

As were yours.

...and I hope we can broaden both our viewpoints here...

Here's my olive branch. My "sorry lot" statement was much too strong and over-the-top. I tend to lump all complaints about work in one basket -- it's just not that simple.

I have...ambitious goals...However, just because I may not choose to work the huge hours during the season does not mean I don't work very hard during the 50-60 or so I put in...after 50-60 hours, my rate of errors goes through the roof...no point spending a tired hour...that will take me 15 minutes when I'm more with it.

Do whatever works for you, I say -- 50/60 hour workers are rare these days, so you're on good ground. I do 9-5 Mon-Sat, supper & TV 'til 7-8, work 'til 2, hit the sack, back at 9, do it again. Switch to half-day Saturdays on March 1st -- maybe work a few hours Sunday depending on workload. While you're a young family person, I'm an empty-nester over-the-hill insomniac with nothing else to do and can afford to be holier-than-thou (I vaguely remember trying to get off work at your age...hard to believe...).

As for clients...last minute demands...office hours are set...phone goes to voicemail after 5. Sundays are not for them...A lack of prior planning on their part does not create an emergency on mine...

I do the same now -- I used to go to extraordinary lengths for clients, but a few memorably unpleasant individuals ran it in the ground. That "accomodate the client" skit in my first post was for laughs and was a bad example. The reason we work so much overtime is not to meet clients' deadlines, but just to get all the work done by April 15th; there's 500 returns and two of us...

Plus, when my practice is long sold or closed, I will be left with my family, sactified as it is. I define my work, not the other way around.

Touche! But...I predict that before you're through your work will make you bend to it -- check back around 2030.

_____________________
He did nothing in particular
And did it very well -- W. S. Gilbert

[taxxcpa]

Tax preparers

I never wanted to be a tax preparer. I preferred doing audit work, not the kind where you certify that everything is A-OK, but the kind where you look for more money for your client or employer.
But after early retirement, most companies did not want someone that would be of retirement age in a few years. For a while I did consulting work in the kind of audit work I liked, but eventually I got tired of having to travel and got into tax work, but on a small scale that doesn't require 18-hour days.

[AuditorTurnedGood]

Alright

those were some good points, and I hope we can broaden both our viewpoints here. However, I think what I may have failed to assert in my first response was the idea that you can choose how you want to work. Believe me when I tell you, my generation has had a lot to learn about working for things, I believe it was Steve Jobs who informed a commencement ceramony "You will not be a Vice-President with a car phone until you have earned both". We all want to be CEO of Google by 30. I have some very ambitious goals for myself, as do many of my friends in the accounting industry. However, just because I may not choose to work the huge hours during the season does not mean I don't work very hard during the 50-60 or so I put in. I commend you and people like you for your ability to work long hours and produce high volume, high quality returns. I know that after 50-60 hours, my rate of errors goes through the roof, so I choose to stop work at that point, and do something outside of work. There's no point spending a tired hour on something that will take me 15 minutes when I'm more with it.

As for clients and their last minute demands, my clients and I have an understanding. My office hours are set. My phone goes to voicemail after 5. Sundays are not for them. I've had clients come to me with the last minute, life or death, ruin my business and my family problems. In deciding how to handle it, I ask myself the following questions: 1) Could they have come to me earlier? A lack of prior planning on their part does not create an emergency on mine. 2) Is this the first time? If a client is usually good and just has "one of those days" I'm more likely to deal with something after hours or work longer to get it done that a client that constantly has their pants on fire. I just adjusted to the idea that I can choose my clients, and in some cases, my clients work for me as much as I work for them.

As for the 40 hour week, I didn't say I don't work more than that. That idea left my head when I quit working for the state and was contractually prohibited from more than 40/wk. What I'm talking about is the idea that it's totally OK for 4 months of your life to be completely consumed by one focus. You can work long hours and still have balance, but that tends to get tough when you spend 50% of the week on the clock. It also seems to make a bit of a difference if you then take the remaining 8 months off, more or less.

Plus, when my practice is long sold or closed, I will be left with my family, sactified as it is. I define my work, not the other way around.

[Black Bart]

Dear ATG,

A danger of flip sociological judgments like mine is that there's usually somebody more-sensitive-than-thou on the moral high ground above. Okay, here we go; you seem like a nice person (not a nut) and hopefully we can kick it around without getting into a fight. Here's my take on your take:

...one of the biggest things we were taught in our college education was the idea of work-life balance. Many of us look at the seasoned, experienced tax preparers who put in the monsterous hours during the season and have no desire for them, because for us that does not show a proper balance...

With advance apologies -- to me, that's hogwash. Yes, of course we'd rather not work "monstrous" tax season hours and of course we "have no desire for them," but we're competing in the real world against real tax preparers who will accomodate customers if you won't.

Client: I've got to have this by Monday!
Tax Preparer: Sorry, it's impossible.
Client: Wha -- why? Today's Friday.
TP: Proper work-life balance.
Client: Say what?
TP: An inviolate and iron work ethic rule originating in the halls of academia espousing the primacy and sanctity of family life above business.
Client: Say what?
TP: College professors say work 40 hours and no weekends or the kids won't like it.
Client: What about my bank loan?
TP: Overtime's bad karma -- gets the family off-balance and out of whack. Check with Block.

...I had a friend...whose dad...From January to April...worked about 90-100 hours a week, sending his family out of town to cure the guilt. He made 80% of his revenue in 4 months...Likewise the...manager at my last...job...told her 4 kids she was out of town...when...she was...in the city, working 90 hours a week...

Friend-dad's guilt is misplaced. See, that sweating, culturally-calloused tax preparer is working like a dog to make as much money as humanly possible in those vital four months and provide a year's worth of food, shelter, cars, and clothing for sociologically-enlightened family members who have never felt the pains of being without money. And W-2 manager should inform the kids that life requires higher priorities than delicate feelings, to stop being silly, and say "Hey! I'm trying to make a living here. Cut me some slack!"

Don't get me wrong...We want to work, and most of us enjoy a fast paced workplace, but in the end, we want more than just our careers.

We all want something -- usually it's a question of whether or not you can afford it.

[AuditorTurnedGood]

In our defense

I don't know if the work ethic is dead or what. I heard a young tax preparer say "I'm not working like so-and-so does." That's not terrible, I guess...still, there's something...I don't know the right word...but to me his stature was reduced, as in, here's someone who does not want to work. In my old-folks age group, such people are considered a sorry lot (my relatives as well as yours). Here, "lazy" is about one of the worst four-letter words that can be applied to you. Almost anything else can be forgiven if you put in a good day at work.

As a young preparer (4 years out of school, 2 years in my practice) one of the biggest things we were taught in our college education was the idea of work-life balance. Many of us look at the seasoned, experienced tax preparers who put in the monsterous hours during the season and have no desire for them, because for us that does not show a proper balance. Don't get me wrong, I work plenty of hours all year, let alone during the season, but I realized something early. I had a friend in college whose dad had his own practice. From January to April, he worked about 90-100 hours a week, sending his family out of town to cure the guilt. He made 80% of his revenue in 4 months, but when looking at that example when I started my practice, I heard myself say "I don't want to work like him" Likewise the State and Local tax manager at my last W2 job who told her 4 kids she was out of town on business when in fact she was 20 minutes away in the city, working 90 hours a week on litigation. These examples are what serve to make our work ethic different, not dead. We want to work, and most of us enjoy a fast paced workplace, but in the end, we want more than just our careers.

[OtisMozzetti]

Those who assist in preparing tax returns must register with CTEC

Unless they work for a CPA, in which case licensing is not required. Also, I have yet to hear of a state where CPA CPE in taxation is required to do taxes.

California passed a law during 2008, to clarify previous legislation, that those who prepare tax returns or who EVEN ASSIST IN preparation of tax returns must complete education and register with CTEC. Exempt from the CTEC registration requirement are the federally authorized Circular 230 tax practitioners, EAs, CPAs, attorneys, etc.

This is explained in the Franchise Tax Board website "Tax News" archive for August 2008. The employees of a CPA, for example, are going to be exempt only if the CPA signs all the tax returns.

[ED SMITH]

I don't think the problem is any of the above mentioned things. It is the fact that for most beginning tax preparers, as well as for most others, it is a ten week job. On top of that, the basic course in CA is 66 hours over an 11 week period. Not to many people want to study for 11 weeks to have a 10 week job. Then, what do you do for the rest of the year. So most people who are attracted to it are those people trying to supplement their retirement income, or their spouses' income.