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    #1

    Another Meals Deduction

    Client that is an air traffic controller is claiming that he can deduct a meals allowance as he is "trapped" in the building and can not leave. According to his new contract effective 2006, FAA now says that if they leave the "building" the time would be deducted from the employee's vacation time.

    I have several questions out to him regarding what he is basing this on, besides the fact that all of his co-workers take the deduction under DOT, and other co workers have not had any encounter with the IRS or disallowance, going back to 1995-96.

    The other comment was that a CPA had posted this deduction. If it is the CPA I think it is, this CPA is now under a DOJ order to cease preparing tax returns claiming the meals deduction for a certain group, altho it is for employees under a different job occupation, however, still related to "meals" deduction. Interestingly enough, this CPA website is basically "shut down" and has the DOJ link.

    Does anyone know of a legitimate "meal" deduction for Air Traffic Controllers? I have been "googling" all day and find little information.

    Thanks,

    Sandy
    Last edited by S T; 08-12-2008, 06:22 PM.
    Tags: None
    #2
    You must be speaking of Martin K. I don't see how the controller is more trapped than a fireman. This would not fit IRC §119. You might find Sibla analogous.

    Richard R. Sibla, Petitioner-appellee, v. Commissioner of Internal Revenue, Respondent-appellant.robert E. Cooper, Petitioner-appellee, v. Commissioner of Internal Revenue, Respondent-appellant, 611 F.2d 1260 (9th Cir. 1980)
    http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F2/611/1260/276693/
    Richard R. Sibla, Petitioner-appellee, v. Commissioner of Internal Revenue, Respondent-appellant.robert E. Cooper, Petitioner-appellee, v. Commissioner of Internal Revenue, Respondent-appellant, 611 F.2d 1260 (9th Cir. 1980) case opinion from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit


    Google "meal deductions for air traffic controllers" and you will find a couple of IRS letters among other things.
    Last edited by solomon; 08-12-2008, 08:42 PM. Reason: Addition

    Comment

      #3
      Yes

      Yes, and I did google and I did find the IRS letters. Thanks for the link! Also read the post at TA which was intermixed between firemen and Traffic Controllers.

      Waiting for the t/p to forward something in writing rather than hearsay and inquiring about names of preparers , etc that are promoting this deduction for co-workers!

      Ran across this many years ago, regarding deferred compensation for police officers not being taxable, lost the client, then after they received the letter from IRS came back to me for an amendment along with the tax liability and "huge" penalties.

      Sandy
      Last edited by S T; 08-12-2008, 10:41 PM.

      Comment

        #4
        If you haven't, you might want to read the part of Swagler that deals with meals - this was a firefighter but seems similar to the controller.

        404 Error Page | United States Tax Court
        http://www.ustaxcourt.gov/InOpHistoric/Swagler.SUM.WPD.pdf
        404 Error Page


        It comes down to whether there is an employer requirement for a common meal donation or whether it is voluntary. When required, it fits either §162 or §119 - otherwise it is not deductible when voluntary.
        Last edited by solomon; 08-12-2008, 09:54 PM.

        Comment

          #5
          And they would never get to use the IRS per diem.

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by solomon View Post
            It comes down to whether there is an employer requirement for a common meal donation or whether it is voluntary. When required, it fits either §162 or §119 - otherwise it is not deductible when voluntary.
            Also depends who "requires" it. If it's required by the union as opposed to the employer for example that has tax consequences. I've yet to do a firefighter return where there was a legitimate deduction for meals.

            Comment

              #7
              Creatively dodging the tax bullet

              Originally posted by S T View Post
              ...Ran across this many years ago, regarding deferred compensation for police officers not being taxable, lost the client, then after they received the letter from IRS came back to me for an amendment along with the tax liability and "huge" penalties.

              Sandy
              Was this pre- or post- your NC residency?

              Certain retirement items for certain government retirees under certain circumstances can slide under the (NC) Bailey ruling which exempts that income from state taxation.

              Never heard of trying to dodge the IRS on the issue, though!!!

              ****

              As for the "trapped in the building over lunch" - WOW!! All of the brown-baggers, sandwich eaters, and leftovers-from-home eaters should unite for a huge tax refund.

              FE

              Comment

                #8
                Calif

                FE,

                This was a Calif Police Officer approx 10 years ago that somehow, his wife was lead to believe on his retirement that "all of his deferred comp account" should not be taxed. They had been a long time client of mine and I advised "not so" and gave them cites. Hence they went to a preparer that "touted" this, and about 1.5 years later, the IRS contacted them. The tax preparer is no longer preparing tax returns, at least not that he is signing his name to.

                Keep in mind this was not the first mis-interpretation that this t/p's wife made, I had previous encounters on other issues.

                So actually am not unhappy about losing the client!

                Sandy

                Comment

                  #9
                  Delayed Thanks

                  Solomon, Thanks for your posts, FEDUKE as well. Finally received the information from the t/p (very delayed) who is an air traffic controller and the info was the same that I pulled up online form a newsletter that went out from MK, who is under DOJ orders as we speak. Had the letter rulings from some similar situations that were submitted to IRS, and finally the t/p acquiesced on the taking the deduction, otherwise I was proably going to have to decline in the preparation of the 2007 return.

                  An issue with the air traffic controllers FAA and the Union, and the air traffic controllers can not leave the premises, and if they leave the premises for a lunch/dinner break they have to take sick or vacation time. Sad item is that the air traffic controllers have to bring their lunch/dinner or go without for their shift, or take that mandatory sick/vacation time. No cafeteria in the building.

                  But the Building is the t/p tax home, so I can not see how the meal allowance at DOT rates can be taken.

                  Sandy

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by S T View Post
                    ...No cafeteria in the building.

                    But the Building is the t/p tax home, so I can not see how the meal allowance at DOT rates can be taken.
                    Sandy,

                    I must have missed something. Is your client an ATC that works out of his home?

                    D

                    Comment

                      #11
                      I guess I don't see what's so sad. I know alot of employees that have to take their lunch to work or they don't eat.

                      My husband worked many construction sites where there was no sort of food service available. Had he left the jobsite to eat, there's no way he could have gone to eat, eaten, and returned to work in 30 minutes So, he would likely have been fired.

                      So, should he have been allowed a meal allowance?
                      You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Bag Lunch

                        Well I have years over time had to bag my lunch, and I didn't complain, but I also didn't have to give up vacation or sick time to take a 30 minute or 1 hour break. Seems State labor laws might have stated that I had that 30 mintues or 60 minutes. My hours were not discounted and my vacation/sick pay was not reduced.

                        That is why I said sad, because now according to my FAA Air Traffic Controller, they are "dunned" vacation and sick time if they want to leave the premises for a lunch/dinner break, but of course no cafeteria was installed. (FAA and Union Contract) Where are the State Labor Laws for a break and lunch hours? That is why in the prior post I made mention of why the client felt like he was trapped!.

                        I certainly have taken the stance with the taxpayer that a "meals deduction is not allowed" even under these circumstances, just portraying what the client was feeling, but somehow that does not always follow what can be claimed for taxes.

                        Sorry if I gave the wrong impression!

                        Sandy
                        Last edited by S T; 09-11-2008, 08:41 PM. Reason: correction

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