Survivor- Richard Hatch

[DTS]

"Do Not File"

Bees,

Those were my words, not hers.

My only recollection of that aspect of the return in question was that she did inform him somehow that the return was not to be filed, as the return was incomplete, a working copy, something of that sort. Thomtax seems to remember this better than I do.

Does anyone remember if this gal was even paid for the work that had been done up to that date? I'm thinking not, but like to know if someone does know for sure. Just curious.

Dennis

[WhiteOleander]

Why would his counsel want him to testify about the "deal" he made with CBS? If what Hatch claims is true, he would confess to another crime. If he caught someone cheating on the show and made a deal with CBS, that would be fixing the game. And after what happened to game shows in the 50's, I believe fixing a game show is a felony.

So, he can't make the arguement that he commited a felony to avoid taxes. He would still owe the taxes on the million dollars and now be sentence for yet another felony.

[veritas]

He needs to

batten down the hatch(es).

[Corduroy Frog]

Joan

Per more complete accounts I've read of the case, the accountant was a witness FOR the government. He prepared the return with the winnings and then Hatch requested one prepared without them. The accountant testified he prepared a draft copy not to be used for filing. Hatch took both and then filed the one without the winnings.

Am I to derive from your post that the accountant actually prepared and released TWO returns to this guy, and told him not to file the one without the winnings? Not sure this is exactly what this is saying, but if so, and I were the accountant and were this stupid I would be ashamed to admit it.

Quite often, I am asked about the effect of selling property, various deductions or income items, and I accommodate the question by putting a dollar amount on the effect. But to prepare two returns and release both of them to the client and tell him not to file one of them? Geez...even I am not that dumb.

[newbie]

Am I to derive from your post that the accountant actually prepared and released TWO returns to this guy, and told him not to file the one without the winnings? Not sure this is exactly what this is saying, but if so, and I were the accountant and were this stupid I would be ashamed to admit it.

Quite often, I am asked about the effect of selling property, various deductions or income items, and I accommodate the question by putting a dollar amount on the effect. But to prepare two returns and release both of them to the client and tell him not to file one of them? Geez...even I am not that dumb.

It must be nice to be so wise! I am "that dumb", as I've been there done that in order to prepare a what if senario, although it was after April 15 and the original return was already filed. Someone was in last month and wanted to know what the tax liability for early withdrawal of an IRA. I pulled up the file and added the amount and spit out a guestimated return.

I see another board member admitted he is just as dumb as I so at least I'm not the only dummy.

[Zee]

And to convolute things a little further, if they were to provide him with the tax due, would this not make his winnings even higher, again raising the amount of his winnings and around and around we go - sort of like chasing your own tail. (Just a thought) :-)

LT

Exactly, if CBS did pay his taxes due they would have to calculate a gross-up of their wages, like transferred or new employees often receive.

Frankly, I think Hatch is just another scumbag like Snipes and others, who know darn well what they're doing and the risks. They just don't want to pay taxes like others, and look for an easy out blaming someone else. It worked for Snipes for the most part, I suppose it might also work for Hatch. I'd like to see both these guys do hard time, not assignment to a prison country club.

[Corduroy Frog]

We've All Done This

Newbie, we've ALL done this, in some shape or form, to ascertain the effects of income or deductions. But surely you didn't prepare (and sign) two different returns for the same person in the same year, and give them to him such that he could decide which one he wanted to file...

...this is what I understand his accountant did from the above dialogue. And told him not to file one of them, but actually did nothing else to stop him from choosing either one. I don't know any court could buy into this explanation.

By the way, Jessie [post below] is the other member who said he prepared two different returns, but he followed up by e-filing the correct return, and rendering the other one unfileable. Jesse is no airhead.

Fear not, Newbie -- you've got a LONG way to go before you are as boneheaded as the Frog.

[JohnH]

I often do this with clients who have large gambling winnings just to demonstrate how it affects their tax liability even when losses equal or exceed winnings. Not that I expected anything different, but it doesn't affect their gambling behavior in the least. As a matter of fact, a couple of them seem almost proud of the fact that their gambling activity produces losses AND additional tax liabiilty. Maybe they think it impresses people to know they can afford this sort of "entertainment" - who knows? When I see this sort of thing, I begin to understand how gambling can easily become an addiction.

[Bees Knees]

You can calculate the tax liability for a client given various scenarios. You should NOT do it by printing out a "what if" tax return.

This case is an example of why not. Nobody really knows who is telling the truth. Hatch? To get out of jail? Or the accountant, to save her career? None of us really knows, but it never would have been an issue had she simply filled out estimated worksheets giving him the information he wanted vs. printing out an actual bogus return.

[Joan]

Do not file

The Smoking Gun website has copies of the indictment. He omitted the Survivor winnings, rent from apartments and income from a potential pilot television show.

Back in the far recesses of my mind, I remember seeing copies of the two returns. As I recall, the one that doesn't include the Survivor income was clearly marked "do not file" and something to the effect that that return was for planning purposes only. Of course, I can't that website. I thought it was The Smoking Gun, but I can't find anything but the indictment.

[Jesse]

The Smoking Gun website has copies of the indictment. He omitted the Survivor winnings, rent from apartments and income from a potential pilot television show.

Back in the far recesses of my mind, I remember seeing copies of the two returns. As I recall, the one that doesn't include the Survivor income was clearly marked "do not file" and something to the effect that that return was for planning purposes only. Of course, I can't that website. I thought it was The Smoking Gun, but I can't find anything but the indictment.

I often wonder what this world has come to? I have done planning purpose "fake" returns but now need to cover my a$$ and will keep any future "fake" returns in my files and write the numbers only down for my client. If the planning purpose return was so clearly marked it should not be an issue. I get frustrated and just think it is sad that we need to work so to cover our butt because so few people in the world today will take responsibility for their own actions.

Do I want to allow my client to take anything written if I am doing a "what if" scenario? What if I write down the numbers and my client decides to do their return on Turbo Tax? They can just say I told them they'd be better off not to claim the income and they decided to do their own return because they did not want to pay the fee.

[Byron]

Hatch, you've been voted off the island

Hatch, you've been voted off the island -- your naked butt will come in handy in prison.

[Zee]

Hatch was convicted a long time ago, wasn't he? How darn long is it before a convicted individual starts serving their sentence?

[jimmcg]

Hatch was convicted a long time ago, wasn't he? How darn long is it before a convicted individual starts serving their sentence?

Depends upon your resources and the talents of your attornies. Once knew an individual who appealed until he was deceased.