vacation home to charity

[Possi]

Hey,

I have been around this mountain before, but will re-visit it since I'm a grandma now....

My clients have a nice vacation/rental property that they give at least a week a year to charity for fund raisers.

My understanding is that there is no write off for this, and the days donated are counted on the "ticker" as personal days.

It just seems to me that they should be able to have some tax incentive for contributions.

???

~possi

[BOB W]

Hey,

I have been around this mountain before, but will re-visit it since I'm a grandma now....

My clients have a nice vacation/rental property that they give at least a week a year to charity for fund raisers.

My understanding is that there is no write off for this, and the days donated are counted on the "ticker" as personal days.

It just seems to me that they should be able to have some tax incentive for contributions.

???

~possi

How about EXTRA utilities, cleaning services you paid for after they leave, and any other paid expense over and above vacant building expenses???????

[Zee]

My guess is the week's usage is being auctioned at charitable fund raising auctions, right?

You're correct. There is no deduction for the owner, and the buyer's charitable deduction would be limited to the excess of the contribution over the fair market value of the week's usage.

It does seem unfair, but if this were allowable it would open the door for all kinds of potential abuse.

[Possi]

Extra expenses...

How about EXTRA utilities, cleaning services you paid for after they leave, and any other paid expense over and above vacant building expenses???????

Since the total expenses are on the rental/private use worksheet, that portion of the total is pro-rated and come out on the personal side. I didn't think to take them specifically on the Sch A!

ahhh
thanks.....

[BOB W]

Since the total expenses are on the rental/private use worksheet, that portion of the total is pro-rated and come out on the personal side. I didn't think to take them specifically on the Sch A!

ahhh
thanks.....

Keep in mind, I was only talking about "over and above" your regular expenses.....If the unit is normally vacant for that time period, it has a normal expense, not a charitible deduction. But extra expense would be deductible, if any. You can't convert normal expenses to a charitable deduction.

[Possi]

change out expense

Keep in mind, I was only talking about "over and above" your regular expenses.....If the unit is normally vacant for that time period, it has a normal expense, not a charitible deduction. But extra expense would be deductible, if any. You can't convert normal expenses to a charitable deduction.

You mean expenses out of pocket for changing renters, ie; servicing the hot tub, cleaning and maintenance expense, utilities over and above the normal empty expense....

[BOB W]

You mean expenses out of pocket for changing renters, ie; servicing the hot tub, cleaning and maintenance expense, utilities over and above the normal empty expense....

Yep>>>> That is how I would do it..............It will probably be a nomimal amount but that was your original question, looking for any expense that would qualify as a charitable deduction.

[Kram BergGold]

Disagree

I don't think anything is deductible. The days given to charity are considered personal days. So any expenses connected to these days are personal expenses and not deductible.

[Possi]

expenses

I don't think anything is deductible. The days given to charity are considered personal days. So any expenses connected to these days are personal expenses and not deductible.

Those are considered personal expenses not deductible on the Sch E. For one who doesn't itemize, it would be lost.

But when you itemize, the expenses out of pocket should be deductible on the A, as are expenses to do charitable work...

This wouldn't pass, really?

[BOB W]

I would guesstimate you charitable deduction to be $150-$175 if you used an outside housecleaning service to make the rental ready for the next renter. Any work you personally do is not deductible>>> Again, only "out of pocket" counts..................

[Zee]

I agree there is no deduction. Here's a summary I read during a quick search:

"IRC §170(f)(3)(A). Other examples cited include rent-free use residential real property to charity; a free loan of artwork to a museum; and the rent-free use of automobiles to an educational organization for use in driver education programs. Donors should be aware that if they donate the use of residential rental property (e.g., a week at the donor's rental beach house is donated for a charity auction), the successful bidder's use of the home is considered the homeowner's personal use for purposes of applying section IRC §280A's limitation on deductions related to a dwelling unit used as a residence. See Rev. Rul. 89-51"

In addition to the personal usage issue, for any charitable gift to be deductible, it must be a gift of full ownership, not usage. I don't believe any of the additional expenses are would be deductible either.

[BOB W]

Rev. Rul. 89-51" only talks about Fair Rental Value as a deduction. That is not what I am referring to ...

ADDED: I'm thinking ......... In order to get a charitable deduction, contributions need to be paid the church's general account...... but mileage is personally paid and deductible..... ?????? I'm still thinking...... Is there other deductions for charity that is deductible without paying money to a church???? I'm still thinking.....

[Zee]

Rev. Rul. 89-51" only talks about Fair Rental Value as a deduction. That is not what I am referring to ...

I understand (I think). You're suggesting that the excess maintenance-type expenses incurred by the owner (because of the rental) might be deductible as a charitable contribution. I suppose an example might be the additional air conditioning costs, etc.

What changes the nature of those additional expenses from a personal expense to a deductible contribution?

Another question arises if the vacation property is also rental property. Are the expenses during the period deductible as a Schedule E expense, or not since the property isn't available for rental during that period?

I don't think the additional expenses are deductible, but I could be wrong.

[Possi]

it is rental, too

Yes, this property is also rental property.

The charitable time is not reflected anywhere. The only charitable deduction I want to take is their direct out of pocket expenses which are a $50 maintenance on the place and $50 on the hot tub.

Expenses to do charitable work are deductible, so why not expenses for charitable contributions?

Loaning art would be a deduction if you had to have the art work professionally cleaned. That would be an expense to do charitable work.

So, why not?

(I'm really working here, you know?)

[Zee]

Yes, this property is also rental property.

The charitable time is not reflected anywhere. The only charitable deduction I want to take is their direct out of pocket expenses which are a $50 maintenance on the place and $50 on the hot tub.

Expenses to do charitable work are deductible, so why not expenses for charitable contributions?

Loaning art would be a deduction if you had to have the art work professionally cleaned. That would be an expense to do charitable work.

So, why not?

(I'm really working here, you know?)

Are you sure the cleaning of artwork to be loaned for display would be deductible? I seem to also remember reading that somewhere, but can't find any substantiation.

However, if loaned artwork isn't an allowable deduction...why would the related expenses be deductible?

In the rental vacation home situation, the loaned usage clearly isn't deductible. It becomes personal usage. If it's personal usage, how can the additional expenses (hot tub, etc.) be deductible?

The other question is are any of the expenses of the week deductible as a Schedule E deduction during the week it is unavailable for rental? However, my guess is most tax preparer's would include them and the additonal expenses as a component of Schedule E.

We always learn something in these interchanges, don't we? Although I'm not sure we have the answer yet. Interestingly, I've learned that the donation of a partial interest in artwork can be deductible. That surprised me. I thought a donation required the transfer of full ownership. Here's what I read:

Partial Gifts of Art

"Understandably, many donors desire to receive a charitable tax deduction, but are not willing to relinquish full control of the art. A donor may transfer a fractional interest to the charity and receive a deduction. For example, a donor may give one-fourth interest in a painting to an art museum. The museum would be entitled to own and display the painting for three months of the year. The donor would retain the painting for nine months". PLR 9303007.