Attention E.A.s

[Snaggletooth]

Some time back, Roland Slugg made an observation I would like to carry to a thread:

EAs are those of us who practice at a high level (for the most part).

The "title" of our group (as collectively called) has been endowed upon us by the IRS, as the entire program has been created by, administered by, and tested by, the IRS. Hence, we are collectively known as "enrolled agents."

Sluggo suggested we try to change the name. Hard to do if the head of the snake is the IRS, and the head moves the rest of the snake. However, we do have the NAEA where our own people drive the bus.

So IRS calls us "enrolled agents." What does this say to the public we serve? Does it imply we are agents working for the IRS?? We all know better, but why would the public think any differently than we are going to put the interests of the IRS ahead of the public?

To reinforce this perception, just think of the "acceptable" definitions for an E.A.:
"...a preparer enrolled to practice before the IRS"
"...one who is enabled to practice before the IRS"
"...a preparer whose qualifications have been accepted to practice before the IRS"
...etc. etc.

It is as if these definitions are literal proof that we work for the IRS primarily, and for the public only secondarily.

This might be a question better posed to the NAEA, but can we collectively find some way to move away from this IRS-endowed perception?

[BHoffman]

Cpta

Certified Public Tax Accountant.

[erchess]

I think

that the idea is very interesting. A name change might be a good idea but I think that instead or in addition, NAEA needs to seek for us what the CPAs and Attorneys have, which is control over who becomes one of the group and a role in the policing of those who have been admitted. I think that the IRS might willingly go along if everyone who gets paid to do a return stood under the provisions of Circular 230. That would also be advantageous to all enrolled preparers because our clients would not be able to run to preparers who face lesser penalties than we for doing wrong. I think the IRS could be persuaded to go along because in many ways unscrupulous unenrolled preparers are their worst problem in terms of paid preparers.

If we do change our name our choices will be limited by the CPAs and Tax Attorneys because it is their right to have us not use a name easily confused with either of theirs.

[BHoffman]

Affiliation

I think Snag is correct that EAs get affiliated somehow with the IRS in the mind of the general public. It would be better to be perceived as an offshoot of CPAs than the IRS. After all, EAs are like CPAs who specialize only in tax work.

I also think that, in general, EAs don't charge enough for their work. This gives a perception of less quality and that simply isn't true. Perhaps that is a self-imposed problem. I also think that, in general, EAs view the unenrolled preparer as their main competitor instead of the CPA.

Is there some pervading sense of scorn among EAs for CPAs? I've seen it here and on other forums to the point where I feel almost apologetic for having that license. I think this does the EA professionals more harm than good. Because the AICPA does such a good job of promoting CPAs, I think EAs have a great opportunity to gain the respect they deserve in the eyes of the general public by aligning themselves with CPAs instead of against them. I think this would go a long way in gaining the respect EAs deserve. You certainly have mine.

[Uncle Sam]

EA Name Change

I'm both an EA and a CPA.

This idea of changing the professional title of EA to something else is not new.

It has been researched many times over the years by NSA and NAEA. The last time this idea was brought up (I believe by NAEA) there were legal reasons for not being able to change it.

[JG EA]

Should not change

Perhaps not even the most educated, tax savvy clients really understand what EA means even after years of service and written explanations.

But they do understand it means an important accreditation and qualification. The only reason CPA is well understood is because of decades of familiarity. Enrolled Agents have successfully developed a reputation for competence, knowledge, honestly.... So, EA's are now more and more familiar.

Many people now look for an EA on advice from others in their families or from their friends. So, I don't think starting over with a new name makes sense.

[Snaggletooth]

Yes I believe there has been

Is there some pervading sense of scorn among EAs for CPAs?

I believe there has been lack of comfort between EAs and CPAs, and the idyllic vision of CPAs and EAs walking arm-and-arm together will not happen in my lifetime.

Although there are strong friendships between myself and local CPAs, and there is much amiable dialogue on this board between the two, there have on occasions been some thorny interface.

I remember a proposal by the AICPA to limit tax practice to CPAs and Attorneys, essentially ignoring any competence by EAs. There are also CPAs who have what I would call a "God Complex" very similar to what nurses think about doctors. If you detect any scorn on the part of EAs, it is this kind of behavior that has been responsible for it. In fairness to CPAs, their theatre in economics is much broader, and the exam is inifinitely more complex. With decent preparation, most EAs can pass their exam on their first or second try, whereas an aspiring CPA may never pass all parts of their exam. The scope of what has to be passed is just simply too broad to be easily assimilated into study time.

However, because CPA practice is so broad, many of them work in areas not related to taxes. There are specialists in audits, banking, mergers/acquisitions, etc You will thus find many CPAs who know virtually nothing about taxes, and any attempt to interface in that area is reduced to GAAP. Conversely, you will never find a single EA who does not pruport to practice in the tax arena.

Before I resigned my last employment in 2005, I had two CPAs working directly for me. They were very sharp, but treated me as a superlative in the area in which we worked. One of them got promoted, and the other got promoted to my job when I resigned. There is no condescending from the CPAs who know me, and we exchange information as equal parties. I have thus not had to deal with any who thought they were in the clouds looking down on EAs.

Fact of the matter, there are good and bad preparers everywhere. There is one very good preparer in my town who isn't of any designation whatsoever. The guy is a stockbroker and also has a thriving tax practice with 900 customers. Conclusion to all of this, Ms Hoffman, is that the label is only as good as the person wearing it.

[dodgedipduck]

I'm proud to be an EA.

That having been said, I wish EA'S would stop trying to tag onto the coattails of CPAs. We're not "CPA Lites." We passed a test. A hard test, but it was only one test. A CPA had to go to college for years, also pass hard test on a much wider range of subjects, and might have had to intern at a CPA firm for a few years depending on the state.

You could say "Except for the academic requirements, the testing, and the experience, I'm like a CPA." That's reality, but it's going to sound funny to a client.

Just be proud to be an EA and promote your profession. Don't be envious of some other professional's designation.

[BHoffman]

Back to the topic

"This might be a question better posed to the NAEA, but can we collectively find some way to move away from this IRS-endowed perception?"

I think this is an important issue for EAs. The public perception may well be that EAs are not only IRS endowed, but "managed" by the IRS. Enrolled Tax Professional, Enrolled Tax Specialist. I think it's the "Agent" part that can skew the perception.

[ChEAr$]

One EA

in my area advertises that her company is "an enrolled agent OF the IRS."

Two things wrong here. 1. obviously the use of the word "OF" above and
2. circular 230 clearly states that only individuals may be EA's.

Anyway, when trying to choose an acceptable alternative title, we can't
run afoul of the 50 states which license public accounting, and in all (probably)
50 states, there are prohibitions against using the term "public".

However, I've always described myself as a "tax accountant" and never feared the
state calling me on it.

[thomtax]

Respectfully disagree

I'm proud to be an EA.

That having been said, I wish EA'S would stop trying to tag onto the coattails of CPAs. We're not "CPA Lites." We passed a test. A hard test, but it was only one test. A CPA had to go to college for years, also pass hard test on a much wider range of subjects, and might have had to intern at a CPA firm for a few years depending on the state.

Test - Yes, the CPA exam had a wider range of subjects. This is because they are being certified for a wider range of services. However, the last I knew, only part of the exam was on taxes. The sections of the CPA exam are

Auditing and Attestation (AUD)
Business Environment and Concepts (BEC)
Financial Accounting and Reporting (FAR)
Regulation (REG)

At the time I took the EA exam, there were 4 parts and all were on taxation.

Education - Now the CPA exam basically requires the equivalent of a master's degree.
The EA does not require this, but I do have a BA. And at the time that I was working as a controller for a company, took and passed the Certified Management Accountant exam.

I'm not knocking the CPA, far from it. They, mostly, have earned their designation. What I do have a problem with is that I know of many CPAs that put down the EAs as inferior.

The failure of the EA group to advertise to get their name in front of the public seems to me to be of of the big failings. How many times have you heard generic advertisements on radio extolling CPAs as being experts? Then how many times EAs? When driving through Dallas was the only time I heard a generic EA ad.

And I also am proud to be an EA

LT

[thomtax]

Harlan - In Arkansas you would run afoul of the state board of accountancy. A few years ago they hired a company to clip ads of everyone who ran an ad during tax season and used the word accountant, accounting or any derivation. They then contacted some of the companies in our small town and made them change their name to omit this wording. The option was to also put into signage, letterhead, advertising, etc. a statement to the effect that they were not in any way connected with or approved by the ASBPA. You can advertise bookkeeping - not accounting.

LT

[OtisMozzetti]

authorized to represent taxpayers with the IRS

My description of an EA, or other Circular 230 professional, would be a tax professional who is "authorized to represent taxpayers with the IRS". That doesn't give any impression that the EA works for the IRS, although we of course know that an EA has certain ethical responsibilities.

Also, of course, the taxpayer(s) must authorize the EA to represent them.

[oceanlovin'ea]

wording is important

I think how we word things is important. After I became an enrolled agent and with my new clients, I tell them that "I am an enrolled agent which means that I am authorized to represent clients before the IRS in matters of representation and audits." I also tell them that as an enrolled agent I am required to have 72 hours of CPE credits during a 3 year period which means that I attend several seminars and must keep up on the latest tax situations. I also tell them that Enrolled agents are held to high standards of ethics and must be extra careful in the preparation of returns.They were usually impressed.

But we all know from experience that sometimes what we say and what people hear are not the same. One word can change the whole meaning of a sentence. So we have to make sure that we use the correct terminology when taking about being enrolled agents.

As far as changing what we are called, I will accept the designation that we are given. I really don't see NAEA supporting a name change when they are finally getting recognition. I have too much to do in my life right now to take on that kind of a project. So I will be content to be an EA.

Linda F

Linda F

[BOB W]

I am happy with the EA designation, but if it were to be changed I would have a couple of choices in mind.

Enrolled Taxpayer Representative> ETR
Enrolled Taxpayer Agent > ETA

The word "Taxpayer" becomes important in order to show who is being represented before the IRS.