bookkeepers

[OtisMozzetti]

Just to throw my two cents in... but a knowledgeable and experienced CRTP can prepare a tax return just as good, if not better, than an EA.
...
~maria

It is of course true that, if a CTEC preparer is one of the knowledgeable and experienced ones (not all are), then they might prepare returns just as well or better than some EA's. EA's, though have passed a substantially more rigorous testing program (no open book tests, for example), than is necessary for the CTEC preparer. EAs are usually better at explaining what is going on.

EA (and former CRTP) in California, who has taught the class required to become a CRTP many times (I therefore know how little it really takes--70% on a 66-hour course--to become a CRTP)

[MariaR08]

It is of course true that, if a CTEC preparer is one of the knowledgeable and experienced ones (not all are), then they might prepare returns just as well or better than some EA's. EA's, though have passed a substantially more rigorous testing program (no open book tests, for example), than is necessary for the CTEC preparer. EAs are usually better at explaining what is going on.

EA (and former CRTP) in California, who has taught the class required to become a CRTP many times (I therefore know how little it really takes--70% on a 66-hour course--to become a CRTP)

I agree with you that EAs pass a more rigorous test for the title (my goal for next year).

I'm a CRTP here in California and from my experience... I've had some clients who their previous preparer is an EA and did NOT give them the Child & Dependent care credit - when it's clear as sky they are entitled to it. Just because you can pass the EA test doesn't mean you know how to apply the tax law/concept accurately. It just means you studied enough (memorized enough) to pass the test.

By no means am I trying to look down and put in a bad light any EA, being that I myself am shooting to complete the EA exam next year. I'm just wanted to throw my two cents that the CRTP title shouldn't be left out in the cold

~maria

[PIGLEE]

I used to teach bookkeeping, accounting and taxes at our community college. There were a lot of self employed people who wanted to learn bookkeeping. We had lots of fun, and they learned a lot. Then they changed their courses, and I quit teaching. Their beginning class was a Corporation Accounting Class(not bookkeeping). The class assumed the students had taken high school bookkeeping and it did not give the students what they wanted or needed. I would suggest to start with get a high school '"BOOKKEEPING CLASS" book. If that is what they offer at your community college great. Learn your debits, credits, P & L and Balance Sheets, first. Then go for the Quick Books Classes, and get their certification.

You need to learn how to do bookkeeping on paper, first, then get your Computer learning. Even with taxes, if you can't do it on paper first, then you don't know what the computer is doing for you, or how to fix a problem.

[taxcraft]

Weasel

WEASEL

Accounts with a debit balance. To increase them, debit them again.
W-withdrawals
E-expenses
A-assets

Accounts with credit balances. To increase them credit them again.
S-surplus(capital)
E-earnings(revenue)
L-liabilities

See the following T accounts:

Increases go on the outside, and decreases go down the middle!!!

..........Withdrawals...................Surplus
.................I................................ .I
......./\........I...............\/.................I.........../\


..........Expenses.....................Earnings
.................I................................ .I
......./\........I...............\/.................I............/\

............Assets........................Liabilit ies
.................I................................ .I
......./\........I...............\/.................I............./\


Debit means left hand side....and that is all it means. Assets and expenses are the two biggest accounts...study these. Usually you are debiting expenses and crediting earnings in day to day accounting. assets and liabilities can be debited or credited in day to day accounting. This is my best way of teaching introductory accounting. I have been lucky to be able to develop several insights in accounting and taxes because of teaching.

Enjoy

[taxcraft]

Weasel

I should have put "......" between the /\ and the \/ to keep them from shifting. But, increases go up the left hand side of the T accounts....deceases go straight down the middle between the T accounts....and increases go up the right hand side of the T accounts. You get it?

[taxcraft]

Weasel

WEASEL

Accounts with a debit balance. To increase them, debit them again.
W-withdrawals
E-expenses
A-assets

Accounts with credit balances. To increase them credit them again.
S-surplus(capital)
E-earnings(revenue)
L-liabilities

Increases go on the outside, and decreases go down the middle!!!

..........Withdrawals...................Surplus
I I
/\ I \/ I /\


..........Expenses.....................Earnings
I I
/\ I \/ I /\

..........Liabilities......................Liabili ties
I I
/\ I \/ I /\


Debit means left hand side....and that is all it means. Assets and expenses are the two biggest accounts...study these. Usually you are debiting expenses and crediting earnings in day to day accounting. assets and liabilities can be debited or credited in day to day accounting. This is my best way of teaching introductory accounting. I have been lucky to be able to develop several insights in accounting and taxes because of teaching.

Enjoy

[Burke]

Here is the way I do it. I know the answer or what the answer should be before I make the journal entry. If it comes out wrong, I go back and do the reverse. DR/CR drives me crazy.

[taxcraft]

Weasel Trick

WEASEL

Accounts with a debit balance. To increase them, debit them again.
W-withdrawals
E-expenses
A-assets

Accounts with credit balances. To increase them credit them again.
S-surplus(capital)
E-earnings(revenue)
L-liabilities

See the following T accounts:

Increases go on the outside, and decreases go down the middle!!!

..........Withdrawals...................Surplus
.................I................................ .I
......./\........I...............\/.................I.........../\


..........Expenses.....................Earnings
.................I................................ .I
......./\........I...............\/.................I............/\

............Assets........................Liabilit ies
.................I................................ .I
......./\........I...............\/.................I............./\


Debit means left hand side....and that is all it means. Assets and expenses are the two biggest accounts...study these. Usually you are debiting expenses and crediting earnings in day to day accounting. assets and liabilities can be debited or credited in day to day accounting. This is my best way of teaching introductory accounting. I have been lucky to be able to develop several insights in accounting and taxes because of teaching.

Enjoy

The above explanation pulls together all of the meaning of debit and credit as an unusual method of addition and subtraction....same side add...opposite side subtract.

[MrsUncleSam]

I would go with the high school first

I'm with geekgirldany on this. Check out your local community college and try to take courses online. Computer training, Quickbooks, Accounting, Business Law and other courses are available online and will all add to your knowledge.

My method of madness is different...I have my accounting degree but for those who are starting all over. I think and have suggested to people to take an evening bookkeeping course given at the local high school. Once you have mastered (aka understand it) then take a college extension course.
Even a basic bookkeeping book from the library.
I think that Gleim has a cheap bookkeeping or real basic accounting course.

When you deal with debts and credits most people do not get it.. so as a mom also ... you have to crawl before you walk.

I must say that in NY we have some fabulous libraries and I would ask the librarian... they might have an excellent disk that would give you the insight that you are looking for.

This is from experience in HS decades ago.. I tutored the non math failing students...my students did extremely well...blank faces...need to crawl..we used apples and oranges and these kids were over 16.... and once you really understand the basics..everything else falls into place....and everyone laughed because of the apples and oranges but my students PASSED the REGENTS (decades ago..it was hard):0)

[Gretel]

I can't believe all this unsolicited advise and judgement. after all Jim did is just asking for used books.

I don't think anyone here truly believes that any one designation knows it all and is always doing the right thing. The most important thing is to have integrity and high standards, not the designation.

[Davc]

I don't think anyone here truly believes that any one designation knows it all

Are you saying there are no lawyers on this board?

[Zee]

Sensitivity

I agree with Matt (maybe not his exact language), so I guess that makes me a "dork" too. My agreement isn't based on "stuffiness" or "ego".

I believe Certifications were originally designed to protect the public by providing some limited assurance of competency. I think that original intent has been greatly diminished by the volume of Certifications.

Over the years, Certifications have "morphed" so there's a Certification for just about any service offered to the public. So many.... the public can't make any sense out of them. In fact, there were several here in this string I haven't heard of.

Is anyone here a "Six Sigma Black Belt"? Someone asked me once if I was. I didn't answer because I didn't want to appear stupid (and I had never taken a Karate or Judo class). He suggested that a "Six Sigma Black Belt" combined with a CPA would make me invaluable in the marketplace. I did some research, and "yes" it would have greatly added value to my resume (mostly in manufacturing environments, if I remember correctly). It's a long, hard, program. I declined.

Then I thought about specializing in providing services for Seniors and Elders. I don't even remember the CPA's designation, but I believe it was Elder Care Specialist and the requirements appeared rigorous. But, it doesn't stop there. There are numerous other Certification programs for those providing services to Seniors including financial & tax advice that amount to little more than the "diploma" mills we all read about.

Want to become a Green Clean Certified Professional Janitor? Contact the Green Clean Professional Janitor Institute.

Matt Sova's response may have seemed "harsh", but perhaps he's tired of the sheer volume of meaningless Certification progams, many of which only confuse the public further, and are basically marketing programs.

[Gretel]

I totally agree with you as far as too many certifications offered, not just in our field of expertise and yet, at the same time, it's often hard to find someone who knows what he is talking about. I am tired of this too.

However, I think it's better to yell at your computer than utter harsh words. Or at least, if you couldn't help it (we are all human) it might be a good idea to say: I am sorry.

[taxxcpa]

Certifilcations

I agree that you don't have to be a CPA or EA to do the work. However to use a title made up by some company to sell books, etc. should not be allowed since it implies something that has no official standing. That in no way means that some holders of such designations are not competent.

[Super Mom]

Certified Bookkeeper

I just saw your post when I was doing a search. For what it's worth I am a CB with the AIPB and I am also a college graduate and very well educated in accounting. The CB test for certification is very intense, thorough and not easy at all. I've come out of the experience convinced that you must know what your doing to become certified. I don't have any second hand books to get rid of, as I want to keep all of mine. I just wanted to encourage you, because as I scanned the posts and it seems that their is a general idea that "bookeeper" equates with "uneducated" and that's just not true.