Stimulus 1040A

[Black Bart]

I know just what you mean.

As for those who don't want to deduct, I had a...client...didn't like the idea of getting a tax benefit from his giving...didn't want to be tempted to be prideful...I had to hand it to him for being principled.

We have to watch out for that kind of thing 'cause I was once a prideful, unprincipled type myself back in my teenage heydey.

Pop bought a brand-new Ford convertible and I cruised around town grinnin' like a baby. While a quick downpour would've drowned me (via upraised nose), I still would not have put the top up. Anyway, that dragged painfully on until he became annoyed with my insufferable, trendier-than-thou persona and pointedly reprimanded me with...umm...sump'n like this..."Hey you! Yeah, you -- hotshot! You're just driving that car -- you didn't build it."

[JohnH]

Render unto Ceasar

I picked on the Bapsits because I am one too. Can't be accused of anything unseemly that way, and besides I know what I'm talking about.

As for those who don't want to deduct, I had a situation like that years ago. The client didn't want to let the "right hand know what the left was doing." He didn't like the idea of getting a tax benefit from his giving and he didn't want to be tempted to be prideful about his giving. I had to hand it to him for being principled.

I happened to mention that he could always give the tax savings to his church, and that finally seemed to work for him. A few days later he came in with his giving record and we calculated the savings generated by the deduction. Every year from that point until he died, I'd run his return with and without the contribution deduction, tell him the extra tax savings, and the next year that amount would show up on his giving record over and above his routine giving.

If there were more people like him, there would never be a need to make any mention of budgets, contributions, or anything of the sort in a responsibly-managed church.

[Black Bart]

Ha-ha.

50% of a week's offering each visit - that alone would qualify you as a Baptist, based on the way some people do their giving.

BTW, I don't use the word "tithe". 10% makes some church members feel guilty, and if that were the standard I know lots of others who'd have to reduce their giving to get it down to 10%. Then there would be no place for the majority of people to hold their weddings & funerals when they want to do "something religious".

To me it really isn't about percentages. It's all about making a much more important decision - of the 100% I've been blessed with, how much am I comfortable keeping for myself?

Actually I am a Baptist (sort of); how'd you guess (I know a few people who do use that type of math)? If I was a PC type I'd have to start hollerin' religious discrimination (or whatever it's supposed to be), but there's so much of that sort of carryin' on nowadays that it just gets soooo tedious (and phony).

Say John, I've got a couple of Schedule A clients who refuse to deduct the money formerly known as tithes because they believe it to be an unprincipled act. I used to argue with them, pointing out they'd have more untaxed money for the passing plate, but they were unmoved. Whaddaya think; is that holier-than-thou or what?

[Koss]

Special Zip Code

No, I didn't see that... until I took the time to read the instructions in something called Tax Package 1040A-3, which is a traditional booklet containing a Form 1040A, but with special instructions for those who otherwise not required to file.

The special zip code confirms my theory that stimulus returns will be routed to a special area of the IRS processing centers.

I still say that anyone who files, or has already filed, a standard tax form, including Form 1040, with an entry on the line for social security benefits, will get the check if they are eligible for it.

What really blew me away in the 1040A-3 package is this:

The instructions confirm that someone with an ITIN is not eligible. But what about someone who has an SSN that is married to someone who has an ITIN?

The instructions state that if they file MFJ, they won't qualify for anything at all. The spouse who has a valid SSN can file and get the $300 payment. And it explicitly instructs the person to file Form 1040 using the filing status single.

Here's the link to the special tax package:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/k1040a3.pdf

Normally, they would only have the choice of MFJ, MFS, or HoH, based on the individual facts and circumstances. This guidance appears to be only for those who are not otherwise required to file, and this would not be applicable to anyone married to someone with an ITIN who actually has taxable income.

My best guess at the reason behind this strange twist:

Remember that filing the return, at least in theory, is not what gets you the payment. It merely establishes that you are eligible for the payment. So in a way, it's almost as if it's not really a tax return by the traditional definition.

I'll be there's a procedural issue, too. If the person plays by traditional rules and files MFS... well, then they have to put the spouse's name and ITIN on the return. And the mere presence of the ITIN will probably disqualify the entire return. [LOL]

But what about someone with an SSN, married to someone with an ITIN, who has real tax liability, and who files a joint return? Shouldn't the spouse with the SSN qualify for at least the $300?

Maybe they'll have to pick it up as a credit on the 2008 return, assuming they once again have tax liability. But that still doesn't address the question of whether the MFJ status, with a spouse with an ITIN, will somehow disqualify the person. Based on the text of the law, I don't think it does...

[Jesse]

I can't tell you how badly I need this season to be done with! I love the fact that I have a good job, money to live on, etc, but this year has been one that I have not enjoyed, for a number of reasons.

So, with just a few weeks to go, I'm going to make the best of it, quit my whining and get through it. And, thank my lucky stars while I'm at it. Do you want to sit down with a bottle of wine (each) and discuss "stuff" after the 15th?

Happy Easter to all.

Dennis

I'm with you for I'm ready for the season to be done, yet as you say thankful to have the job! I'll be ready to sit down with you but I'll just have a good ole Miller Lite! Sitting by a campfire. Dog at my side. Yep I'm ready.

[ecb34691]

Did you all notice the special zip code for mailed stimulus returns at each paper processing center? XXXXX-0099

[Koss]

Stimulus Return

I know they're just using tax forms as a vehicle for this thing, but rigging up a half-done 1040/1040A goes against the grain and it's kind of like scribbling nonsense on a serious document -- I just can't hardly bring myself to do it. I'm still asking for all their income and a 1099 to verify it's SSA and not SSI, although I've made a few exceptions for people I think are sincere & truthful, haven't filed for years, can't find their SSA-1099 (some don't keep it anymore), and can't physically endure the hassle of getting an SSA printout.

Bart, I'm pretty sure that if the return is filed electronically, then the taxpayer will get their stimulus payment automatically, based on the schedule announced by the IRS. And I think this includes returns filed without the words "stimulus payment," and returns that include income other than social security, whether it is the "one dollar interest income workaround," or real income, such as a $2000 pension distribution that is actually taxable, but wouldn't normally trigger a filing requirement.

Someone showed me a "stimulus payment" return that was produced by the consumer Free File do-it-yourself version of Turbo Tax, and it had no entries on page two--not even a standard deduction or a personal exemption. I suppose that doesn't make a difference, because they won't have any taxable income anyway. It looks like the concept is that the IRS database has to be aware of the qualifying income, i.e., non-taxed social security benefits of $3000 or more. The way to make that happen is to input the data on line 14a of Form 1040A, and that's really all they care about.

There's even a section of the IRS website that says that qualifying taxpayers can use an estimate of their income from social security if they do not have Form SSA-1099.

I continue to believe that any properly prepared tax form will qualify the taxpayer for the stimulus payment. And like you, I am a bit uncomfortable with the output of the updated software. From the perspective of an experienced tax pro, the form looks ridiculous.

With that being said...

I also believe that if the return is filed by mail, writing the words "stimulus payment" across the top may well have the effect of routing the paper return to special area that will result in faster processing. I think the IRS has hired temps and seasonal employees, and has trained them only on how to process these basic returns.

So if you want a really warped practical joke, for someone that you really dislike...

Tell them to write "stimulus payment" across the top of their paper return, just to make sure they get the rebate, even though the return actually includes something like a Schedule C or Schedule E.

That return will route to the "stimulus queue." The IRS rep that opens that it, to quote George Thorogood, will "take one look and say, Oh, my God." The return will get re-routed, and the guy probably won't get his refund or his rebate until November.

On the other hand, a "stimulus return" that is routed into the regular processing queue because it's on a standard Form 1040 without the magic words will still be processed. But they might not get the stimulus check on the dates posted on the IRS schedule. The processing of the return might be slowed by the fact that it's in the regular queue...

[SueBaby]

Do you get a spring break? I don't think I know what that is anymore.

Today is my 40th wedding anniversary and apart from my religious obligations, I will be sitting at my desk, trying to catch up.

Linda F

Congratulation on your wedding anniversay. Yesterday was my birthday and I worked from 7:30 until 11:30. Closed office at 11:45 singing Happy Birthday to me.

[JohnH]

Interesting math

50% of a week's offering each visit - that alone would qualify you as a Baptist, based on the way some people do their giving.

BTW, I don't use the word "tithe". 10% makes some church members feel guilty, and if that were the standard I know lots of others who'd have to reduce their giving to get it down to 10%. Then there would be no place for the majority of people to hold their weddings & funerals when they want to do "something religious".

To me it really isn't about percentages. It's all about making a much more important decision - of the 100% I've been blessed with, how much am I comfortable keeping for myself?

[Black Bart]

I figure it kind of like

OK Bart. I won't give you a hard time.
As the church treasurer, I'm happy as long as you make up 50% of your giving on each of those two days. Unfortunately, I think the BOSS sets a much higher standard than I.

this -- a little bit different. Like the junkshop client I had some years ago used to do. Asked him his markup; he said "2%." How figured, I asked? "Well, I buy an item for a dollar and sell it for two dollars -- one and one's two, so that's two percent, ain't it?"

So...if a person gives 50% of a week's tithe on Easter and 50% on Christmas, that's 100% isn't it? (Just kidding; I'm sendin' my dough to Children International, St. Jude, and Operation Iraq Kids, so somebody good is gettin' it).

I probably shouldn't make jokes like that -- Chief's a preacher (where've you been so long, Chief?).

Say, do you suppose BP's initials stand for Boss Preacher? I'm in trouble if it does.

[JohnH]

Ok

OK Bart. I won't give you a hard time.
As the church treasurer, I'm happy as long as you make up 50% of your giving on each of those two days. Unfortunately, I think the BOSS sets a much higher standard than I.

[Black Bart]

Spring Break!

Hmmm, I should have skipped the tax talk altogether -- we're all much more taken with "taking off."

Linda -- Yes, all of us should be getting a spring break beginning April 16th.

Veritas -- Why are you going to wait ten years for yours?

Dennis -- I've already beat you to it, my friend. I bought a bottle of the grape Friday night.

JohnH -- Stop complaining about my attendance record; I'm giving you 100% of my business and any CEO will tell you that's "good business."

[JohnH]

Same here

I'm also looking forward to the end of tax season, but I always hit the wall about this time of the season. So tomorrow I'll be reviewing everything that's in and everything that's still to come, with a new round of extensions going out the door by the end of the day. There's something liberating about getting Apr 15 off the table for a bunch of clients so things can go more smoothly in the runup.

Happy Easter to everyone. I enjoyed church services this morning, especially saying hello to the CEO's I recognized. (CEO = Christmas & Easter Only attenders).

[DTS]

Bart

I can't tell you how badly I need this season to be done with! I love the fact that I have a good job, money to live on, etc, but this year has been one that I have not enjoyed, for a number of reasons.

So, with just a few weeks to go, I'm going to make the best of it, quit my whining and get through it. And, thank my lucky stars while I'm at it. Do you want to sit down with a bottle of wine (each) and discuss "stuff" after the 15th?

Happy Easter to all.

Dennis

[veritas]

My last spring break

was in 1969.

Hopefully my next one will be 2018.