Flight lessons for business

[DTS]

I have a client that is taking flying lessons to fly finished products all over CA and other states. They do very high-end floral design for large corporate events.

Is any of the cost of lessons deductible? I would think it could be, but not sure.

Thanks,

Dennis

[veritas]

Don't think so

See page 4-25 in TTB.

[thomtax]

Dennis,

Unless there is some way to get this in under the lifetime learning, I do not believe that this would be deductible. Would it not run afoul of the preparing the individual for a new occupation rule?

LT

[DTS]

Lessons

I think you're right, no deduction. My thinking was geared towards business expense instead of the lifetime credit.

Thanks for the help,

Dennis

[ED SMITH]

This is an existing business. He is not taking the lessons to start a career as a pilot. He is increasing his skill in order to expand the business. I would go for it.

[DTS]

Thanks Ed

After my last post last night, I just couldn't get this thought out of my head that if I paid an employee to take a seminar to help my business, you can bet I'm taking the write-off. That is why I kept thinking this expense had a business purpose. I was not thinking in terms of education.

Let's say I purchase a big delivery van for my business, but I don't know how to drive the van and I take a driving class to learn, I'm taking the expense, not taking the lifetime credit.

I think the same case can be made for the flight lessons. Maybe, I need more than one cup of coffee to work this out right

Dennis

[Zee]

This is an existing business. He is not taking the lessons to start a career as a pilot. He is increasing his skill in order to expand the business. I would go for it.

I don't think a florist is increasing his skills required for his present work by taking flying lessons. That seems to be quite a stretch for flying lessons as an educational expense.

The question then is can this be a legitimate business expense? I don't think the flight training is, but once licensed he should be able to deduct any business related expenses of rental of aircraft, etc. if reasonable and necessary.

[veritas]

Well

I need a drivers license to go to work. So I take classes to learn how to drive.

Are you going to deduct that?

[bertrans]

This is an existing business. He is not taking the lessons to start a career as a pilot. He is increasing his skill in order to expand the business. I would go for it.

Yes, but,does the training prepare him for a 'higher' position, even if he doen't take it?
Not a joke- mostly

[gkaiseril]

Type of License

One should consider the type of license required for this additional service.

Does the florist need a private pilots license or a commercial pilots license, similar to a Commercial Drivers License for the plane for business ?

If it is a commercial pilots license, the florist is being licensed for a new profession whether he pursues that career or not. Much like going to law school or medical school is not a deductible education expense.

Also since there is a personal use factor to a private pilots license one may have to discount the cost of the classes for the personal use or may not have any education deductible expense at all.

For the education credit's are the classes through a flight school or university that grants degrees and is eligible under the federal student loan program.

[Zee]

Disclosure

I'd be very careful with taking this deduction in consideration of the new disclosure rules. What is the probability of a successful audit outcome?

At a minimum, I'd ask to see a business plan on how he plans to incorporate the flying of planes into his floral business, savings that might be generated, how it will enhance deliveries, etc. Or, is he suggesting it will be easier for him to fly and visit client's locations. Would the flowers actually be flown in a small plane? I can't envision a smaller plane having much room for a Corporate event's flower arrangement needs. Or, is he going to fly larger planes?

All these things might establish a valid business purpose. In the absence of good answers supporting the deduction, I wouldn't complete this return without disclosure.

[DTS]

Veritas

I know this probably sounds like I'm trying to write-off the family cat, but this is not the case!

If I'm unable to take a legitimate deduction for this, so be it. However, this corp honestly has a longtime business plan in place, income is skyrocketing each year and they are thinking of ways to expand even further. This is why the deductiblity of the flight lessons came up.

If I can even allocate a portion of this cost to business, I will do that, if not, I won't.

Dennis

[bertrans]

I know this probably sounds like I'm trying to write-off the family cat, but this is not the case!

If I'm unable to take a legitimate deduction for this, so be it. However, this corp honestly has a longtime business plan in place, income is skyrocketing each year and they are thinking of ways to expand even further. This is why the deductiblity of the flight lessons came up.

If I can even allocate a portion of this cost to business, I will do that, if not, I won't.

Dennis

Zee's points are excellent. And he provides an outline of how you might approach it. It'll require an aggressive approach. I don't think anyone here is suggesting that there's something 'shady'. But, it's not a 'slam dunk'.

[fliszt]

Dennis,

my brother is an OB-GYN surgeon. He has 3 offices. Two in town and one up in a mountain area. He's been taking flying lessons for 4 years. Almost has his instrument licensee. His CPA's are graduates from Harvard. (doesn't make them right all the time) but "did" he deduct his lessons to get to his office in the mountains faster? I'm sure he wished they would have deducted them. Thousands of dollars.

[DTS]

I appreciate all of the suggestions!

I know that no one was proposing this is some shady deduction. I just wanted to make sure everyone knew this was not the case when I asked my original question.

It may be best to deduct the costs as they occur in the future and not get into this "gray" area. I believe my client would be more comfortable with that rather than the lesson costs.

Thanks, again!

Dennis