About that non-eligible (for rebate) SSI

[Black Bart]

I've already got people coming in with SSI letters from the Social Security Administration concerning "changes in your Supplemental Security Income payments." And...they want to use their SSI as income for the rebate...and...I tell 'em they can't. Naturally, they don't like that kind of talk.

I was just thinkin' that, since IRS is saying they can estimate their SSA payments, some people drawing SSI, but not SSA, will probably tell us that they did get SSA, that they've lost their 1099, and ask us to estimate total SS and file for the rebate on it (probably figuring they have nothing to lose by trying to "run it through").

So, I think I'm going to require either the SSA-1099 or for them to get a printout of Social Security benefits from the local SSA office. That way there won't be any doubt about what it is they're filing on or how much they got -- otherwise they'll be flogging my door this summer complaining that they haven't gotten their rebate and having me track down phony claims.

[erchess]

BB I think your approach

makes sense to me and since you appear not to have patented it I think I will do the same.

[ChEAr$]

Same aproach here

as to SS benefits.

BTW, Bart, how is that Mo Money tax place coming along?

[BOB W]

Ok, now I have a problem>>>> are you saying that SSI is fully tax exempt? And SSA in includeable subject to the usual income issues?????

OK> I did some research and found that SSI is not included on a tax return anywhere....UGG. What have I done........................ Not too many thank God......... but enough to make me think> 2 or 3, I guess. I will do some data mining to find out..........................

[Zee]

Ok, now I have a problem>>>> are you saying that SSI is fully tax exempt? And SSA in includeable subject to the usual income issues?????

OK> I did some research and found that SSI is no included on a tax return anywhere....UGG. What have I done........................ Not too many thank God......... but enough to make me think> 2 or 3, I guess. I will do some data mining to find out..........................

My understanding is that's correct, SSA is taxed, SSI isn't. It was also posted that SSI recipients receive no tax document from the Social Security Administration.

[BOB W]

My understanding is that's correct, SSA is taxed, SSI isn't. It was also posted that SSI recipients receive no tax document from the Social Security Administration.

I had a client come in telling me that she had SS Disability and that it was not taxable....I told her all SS was taxable and proceeded to enter it and completed her return. She had a SS form but I didn't look at the form number. It had the highlighted box like any other SS form.... ???????

[Zee]

I had a client come in telling me that she had SS Disability and that it was not taxable....I told her all SS was taxable and proceeded to enter it and completed her return. She had a SS form but I didn't look at the form number. It had the highlighted box like any other SS form.... ???????

Here's a write-up I found using google (not necessarily an authoritative source, but I'm sure it's correct):

"If you receive Supplemental Security Income benefits (SSI) from Social Security because of a disability or your age these benefits are not taxable by the IRS".

"SSI benefits are intended to help pay for your food, clothing, and shelter and are not subject to Federal income tax. Because of this Social Security does not report what you receive from SSI to the IRS, or send you a 1099 at the end of the year".

"Some assistance programs require a print out of your benefit amounts for the prior year. For these cases Social Security can prepare a special benefit letter for you with the payment amounts you received each month of the previous year. Social Security representatives refer to this document as an “SSI 1099″ even though it is not reported to IRS and you must call Social Security to request one. You can contact Social Security to request this letter at 1-800-772-1213"

I suspect your client had an SSA document, the SSI 1099 they're describing would look very different.

[BOB W]

Here's a write-up I found using google (not necessarily an authoritative source, but I'm sure it's correct):

"If you receive Supplemental Security Income benefits (SSI) from Social Security because of a disability or your age these benefits are not taxable by the IRS".

"SSI benefits are intended to help pay for your food, clothing, and shelter and are not subject to Federal income tax. Because of this Social Security does not report what you receive from SSI to the IRS, or send you a 1099 at the end of the year".

"Some assistance programs require a print out of your benefit amounts for the prior year. For these cases Social Security can prepare a special benefit letter for you with the payment amounts you received each month of the previous year. Social Security representatives refer to this document as an “SSI 1099″ even though it is not reported to IRS and you must call Social Security to request one. You can contact Social Security to request this letter at 1-800-772-1213"

I suspect your client had an SSA document, the SSI 1099 they're describing would look very different.

Wow >>> that is a relief>>>>>>>>>>>.. so only people under 65 would be entitled to SSI???? But some under 65 would get SSA?????

[Zee]

Wow >>> that is a relief>>>>>>>>>>>.. so only people under 65 would be entitled to SSI???? But some under 65 would get SSA?????

Here's a link that explains eligibility and differences between the programs:

http://www.ultimatedisabilityguide.com/ssi.html

[joanmcq]

I've been the payee for 3 different people on SSI and they have all gotten 1099-SSAs at the end of the year just like retired people on SS, even the kids. They look just the same; income is taxable if there is other household income that makes it taxable, like a husband's salary.

[Zee]

I've been the payee for 3 different people on SSI and they have all gotten 1099-SSAs at the end of the year just like retired people on SS, even the kids. They look just the same; income is taxable if there is other household income that makes it taxable, like a husband's salary.

I disagree. Publication 915 clearly indicates SSI is non-taxable in the Introduction.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p915.pdf

Pub 17, Your Federal Income Tax, also indicates SSI is non-taxable (same language):

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch11.html#d0e29418

"Social security benefits include monthly survivor and disability benefits. They do not include supplemental security income (SSI) payments, which are not taxable".

Are you sure your clients aren't receiving SSDI (Social Security Disability Income)? All of my readings indicate there is no reporting to the IRS of SSI benefits.

[BOB W]

Well>>> I'm hoping that SSI does not issue a 1099 that looks like the 1099SSA......... like Zee mentioned. Because it would be a BIG screwup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for me.

[Zee]

Bob-

Rest assured, your client is not receiving SSI if they received an SSA statement. Here's a link to the Social Security Online Website. It also confirms SSI is non-taxable, and no SSA-1099 is issued for SSI payments. I don't think it can be any more clear. I do hope this helps clear-up the confusion.

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/ssa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=398&p_created=963421287&p_sid=_QK93WYi&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD0zNywzNyZwX3Byb2RzPSZwX2NhdHM9NDgmcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0xLjQ4JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfbmwmcF9wYWdlPTI*&p_li=&p_topview=1

[joanmcq]

How can someone get SSDI when they have either NEVER paid in and parents NEVER paid in? I just looked at the 1099-SSAs for these folks. And they are subject to the rules for having no more than $2000 of assets.

[Zee]

How can someone get SSDI when they have either NEVER paid in and parents NEVER paid in? I just looked at the 1099-SSAs for these folks. And they are subject to the rules for having no more than $2000 of assets.

Beats me! I'm not an expert. I just did a little research because it was important for rebate purposes. Based on my limited research, to qualify for SSDI, the parent does need to meet historical earnings requirements. That isn't true of SSI.

So, if your clients never worked you're correct, they wouldn't qualify for SSDI. If they are indeed receiving SSI, it isn't taxable. It's hard to imagine anyone receiving SSI would find their benefits taxable because of the earnings limitations to qualify.

I'd check with the SS Administration to determine exactly what they're receiving. Perhaps the SA-1099 was issued in error.