Day care won't give ID#

[JenMO]

I remember reading something about what to do if day care provider won't give her ID number, but can't recall what to do or where I read it. Can anyone help?

[Larmil]

I remember reading something about what to do if day care provider won't give her ID number, but can't recall what to do or where I read it. Can anyone help?

My software allows me to enter REFUSED. Such a return must be paper filed.

[BOB W]

My rule is "You can't claim the credit".

[JenMO]

I'm almost sure there is a procedure to cover the parent for not being able to get number. Is putting refused on it good enough? Should we send a W-9 to the provider and then if she refuses we have proof that we tried? Of course, this sitter might not babysit for my taxpayer anymore, either. I'm going to inform him of that.

[S T]

Day Care Provider

There is a W-10 form for Day Care Providers to complete.

Sandy

[BP.]

I remember reading something about what to do if day care provider won't give her ID number, but can't recall what to do or where I read it. Can anyone help?

Here it is, on p. 2:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i2441.pdf

[erchess]

I think that is a bit restrictive.

My rule is "You can't claim the credit".

I always point out to the client that their provider is not reporting the income and will get in trouble with the IRS if the client claims the credit. I also point out that they are paying less for their childcare than they would pay to someone who is reporting their income properly and I point out that the provider may suddenly fire them after being contacted by the IRS. But I do believe that the final decision must be left up to the client.

[taxmandan]

I'm with Bob W on this, no SSN, no credit. It's their problem to resolve, they can get the number or not. Most of them know what's going on, with the care provider not wanting to report the income.

[dodgedipduck]

I always point out to the client that their provider is not reporting the income and will get in trouble with the IRS if the client claims the credit. I also point out that they are paying less for their childcare than they would pay to someone who is reporting their income properly and I point out that the provider may suddenly fire them after being contacted by the IRS. But I do believe that the final decision must be left up to the client.

Great explanation to the client why it might be better to skirt the rules and how to do it.

[erchess]

Skirting the rules is not breaking them

Great explanation to the client why it might be better to skirt the rules and how to do it.

In the situation we are discussing our clients are not breaking the rules. They are merely using the services of a child care provider who breaks the rules. That's not illegal. I always explain to my clients all the legal options open to them and I let them make the necessary decisions.

I have a feeling that you may say that my clients and I are violating the Spirit of the Law. I personally don't believe that the Spirit of the Law comes into play unless a defendant wishes to concede that he has or may have violated the Letter of the Law but argue for reduced or no punishment because he has supposedly not violated the Spirit.

[Peachie]

I had this as an issue

several years ago. I explained to my client why she should supply a SS# or allow me to use the "refused" designation for childcare. I explained that she's paying her taxes weekly through her pay check and should not allow her childcare provider to escape paying her taxes. She complained she would lose her as a daycare provider. Asked that she choose (1) owe taxes because of the childcare or (2) get a refund and hold her childcare provider to the same tax standards that she enjoys. In the end--money won.

Peachie

[MAMalody]

I simply tell them that we can file for the credit without the number and explain how we would do that. And unless instructed otherwise, do so. If the IRS chooses to pursue it, that is up to them.

[BOB W]

Many of the child (no SS# ) providers proform this service in the childs home... this opens up too many issues.

Beside they are saving many $,$$$.$$ paying this lower cost child care. DON"T get greedy I tell them, nicely.

[Burke]

I simply tell them that we can file for the credit without the number and explain how we would do that. And unless instructed otherwise, do so. If the IRS chooses to pursue it, that is up to them.

And I have done this. To my knowledge, the IRS has never pursued any investigation nor have they ever disallowed the credit for lack of a SSN or EIN.

[ED SMITH]

California also has a Child Care Credit form which requires the same information as the 2441 - PLUS it requires the phone number of the provider and the FTB uses it to verify the claimed expenses.