AT&T Offers Tax Tips

[Snaggletooth]

Yes it's true. On their home page, a link is featured to an AT&T narrative as to how to best file your taxes.

http://www.att.net/s/editorial.dll?eetype=Article&eeid=5636063&render=y&ck=&mode=normal&Table=&_lid=332&_lnm=todays+guide+onnet+filingtaxesonline+tglink&ck=

The entire article is an encouragement for taxpayers to file at home on their own home computer and join the millions who are already doing so. No one is encouraged to see a tax practitioner, or even go to a brick & mortar store like HRB and JH.

The last line of the article tells where this is really coming from:

"AT&T has tagged-teamed with TurboTax to offer our you the most hassle free tax season ever. Just click the link here and let TurboTax handle the rest!"

[Gene V]

IRS Notice

You should read what the IRS website reads:

Most Taxpayers Eligible to File Their Taxes Online for Free

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=177380,00.html

[veritas]

Here's my tip

Don't buy anything from AT&T, one of the worst companies I have ever dealt with.

[ChEAr$]

Och aye!

Don't buy anything from AT&T, one of the worst companies I have ever dealt with.

They are my DSL provider as if I had a choice, but their billing is all screwed up, both office,
home, and my wife's home phone.

Still I like my DSL. Sure beats that old 300 baud modem I started out with.

[gkaiseril]

Yes it's true. On their home page, a link is featured to an AT&T narrative as to how to best file your taxes.

http://www.att.net/s/editorial.dll?eetype=Article&eeid=5636063&render=y&ck=&mode=normal&Table=&_lid=332&_lnm=todays+guide+onnet+filingtaxesonline+tglink&ck=

The entire article is an encouragement for taxpayers to file at home on their own home computer and join the millions who are already doing so. No one is encouraged to see a tax practitioner, or even go to a brick & mortar store like HRB and JH.

The last line of the article tells where this is really coming from:

"AT&T has tagged-teamed with TurboTax to offer our you the most hassle free tax season ever. Just click the link here and let TurboTax handle the rest!"

Let them do this, they will have to come to you to correct their errors.

[TaxLadyinPA]

Check your bank website

My bank and many others that I looked at offer the Turbo Tax link.
I called my bank and asked if they were in the business to do taxes and they said no.
I then asked why they were trying to take business away from me when I do business with them. They said they don't do that. I asked if they could positively guarantee me that I have not lost a client by their link.
They said "oh not that many people use it"
I told them then I wanted to offer my services too on their website.
They said they do not allow advertising on their website. I asked then why was Turbo tax allowed to do this.
They said they received a tiny stipend when someone clicks thru and uses Turbo Tax. (they said they get $ 1.00 )
I said then I will make a website and I will offer you double the stipend when they click thru to mine and I do their tax return.
They got all tongue tied and suddenly decided they couldn't answer any more of my questions.
I told them I was going to close my accounts and take my business elsewhere and I was going to call every tax preparer in the phone book and inform them that if they use this bank they should consider closing their accounts. They said they hoped I would not do that.
I looked at other banks around my area and lo and behold I found the same Turbo Tax offer there. So they got me ... they knew I couldn't find another bank around to use.
Now why can TurboTax advertise at my bank's website and I can't.
They are everywhere.....
and yes .... someone will call when their return is all messed up and they did it thru TurboTax.

[S T]

Call Intuit

I guess you could call Intuit, they also have the LaCerte Product, Pro Series, Quickbooks, Quicken.

State that their advertising is directly affecting your business, would they rather lose you as a Professional Subscriber or the individuals that are linking to Turbo Tax?

However, I doubt it will do much good.

Sandy

[Black Bart]

FreeFile

Checked this out and several of the tax software companies that we buy our packages from are involved along with the online internet outfits. Some of them are:

Intuit (Turbo-Tax)
TaxSlayer
TaxAct

Even H&R Block's on there, freefiling in competition with itself.

You get to them by punching "FreeFile" at the IRS website, which brings up a list of participating companies. I went into a few -- all offer free federal, but most charge $7.95 to $13.95 for state filing. They also display their "premium" (NOT FREE) products at $15/ $30/ $75 (whatever) for basic to complex stuff, so it's a good advertising portal for their retail products, courtesy of the IRS .

No way to know how much they're selling, but one site had a traffic counter which listed me as the one millionth and something visitor (if that wasn't just a made-up number to exaggerate interest -- which is something that's frequently done). I suppose the advertising generates lots of sales of their regular products and with the $7.95 & up state tax filing fee, they probably come out pretty good overall.

I used to wonder why these companies would promote services that compete with their own products, but if you think about it, these services are not cutting into their revenues -- they're cutting into ours. Their tax software packages aren't sold to the general public, they're sold to us pros and if we get fewer customers, then so what? We're going to continue buying them even if our traffic falls off to half of normal while they continue to steal our customers. I guess it's all about numbers; if they generate enough sales volume they don't care whose throat is cut -- even if it later turns out to be their own.

[S T]

On the other hand

Let the consumer try to prepare their own taxes using these products. Then what transpires approximately 18-14 months later, in some cases (not all) a notice from the IRS, could be a CP 2000 notice for not reporting something, could be an actual audit notice based on what is or is not on the t/p return.

So then who does that person (t/p) contact, Turbo Tax, Tax Slayer or any of the other other companies that are promoting. Good Luck!

Actually these companies are probably just capturing the early tax filer with only a W-2 reporting, some might have some HOH and dependent and EIC issues, but rarely will it be the Rental t/p or t/p with a business schedule. Well we might lose some of the "gravy" returns such as in the simple 1040 forms with a Schedule A, but I would bet those that file on line through this method are exaggerating their charitable contribution deductions and possibly employee business expenses and all of the target areas that we dislike so much.

With the new preparer penalties I don't want to be preparing a return that a t/p doesn't have the information and documentation to support.

So there are pros/cons on this issue. However, I still don't like the fact that my Professional Software Company that I have to pay big $$ for, is putting a lesser version on the open market available to taxpayers and competing for my business.

Is this Free Enterprise?

Sandy

[Black Bart]

Good points Sandy, but

I think some them only underscore the problem. It seems to me that we're concentrating on quality when the real loss is one of quantity.

Let the consumer try to prepare their own taxes...later...a notice from the IRS...So then who does that person (tp) contact...

Several of us rework "messed-up" TurboTax cases, -- last year I made about $300 doing that -- but I believe that amount of income is insignificant when compared to the number of customers I probably lost to those $30 TT do-it-yourself boxes or to IRS' Free File. The younger clients which used to be our up-and-coming clientele are fairly computer-literate now and much more likely to try DIY online filing than older customers.

these companies are probably just capturing the early tax filer with only a W-2 reporting...rarely...Rental t/p or t/p with a business schedule...we might lose...the "gravy" returns...the simple 1040 forms...

As accountants and tax preparers we might prefer to work with the more interesting Cs and E's, etc. as opposed to the "gravy" W2 only/W2+A cases, but those W2 cases used to pay the utilities and insurance for us while allowing us take our time and play with or fine tune the interesting cases. "Easy" money that has disappeared must be made up for somewhere and there's only so much you can charge for complex cases until you reach a saturation point where the traffic will not bear further increases.

...with a Schedule A...I would bet those that file...through this method are exaggerating their...deductions...With the new preparer penalties I don't want to be preparing a return that a t/p doesn't have the information and documentation to support.

I agree, but this actually works against our interests rather than for them. Taxpayers can exaggerate deductions, but odds are they won't be audited. So they tell their friends about claiming large deductions and getting a large refund, encouraging others to do the same. We have to worry about $1,000 penalties, but a Free Filer can plead ignorance and is (usually) off the hook except for smaller penalties. They see us as too strict because their pals claimed that stuff using TT and never heard from IRS (probably true -- IRS isn't minding the store, as statistics indicate 1/3 of all EIC claims are false).

Anyhow, I agree that we're doing a better job than TT, but in this particular market niche (the "short" forms) that's irrelevant because it's a numbers and volume game that we're losing to them. While we're creating artful, beautifully crafted, by-the-book 1040As, TT (and the IRS) are mass-producing and processing them in cattle-car bulk -- cheaply.

[joanmcq]

Isn't 'free file' only available to taxpayers below a certain income level? Or was that only one year?. Since the IRS wants everyone to efile, they have to offer a free version of something enabling everyone to efile. The software companies participate because they sell a lot of upgrades, and charge for everything else, including PRINTING a copy of your return. Do you know how many people I talk to that never printed a copy of the return? And if you don't print it, at least with the web version of TurboTax, you have NO idea of what is on the return. You can't actually see it. I don't know about the other software companies.

What I get to see is the CP2000s. Not to mention the EBE audits.

[ChEAr$]

Att

However, one look at ATT web page, my home page, almost gave me heart attach today.
Today, when the stock market took a nose dive first thing this morning, that web page
listed the NASDAQ index a shade under 4,000! Quite a jump from the 2,500 range
where it closed last Friday.

there's GOT to be glitch somewhere.

[Nashville]

Self-Service Gasoline

A chilling allegory exists with the all-but extinct full service gasoline service station.

In the early '70s the self-service, pump-it-yourself gas stations made their first appearance. For three cents/gal more you could drive up and get service. It went beyond that, because the owner of the service station lived in your home town, and provided a job for a mechanic who worked full-time at the service station and was covered up more often than not.

For three cents more, the full-service station vanished from the American scene. I did support my local retailer for as long as I could, but he finally gave up and sold his property to a large convenience store chain. A few years later, the government made full-service operators dig up and reinstall gas tanks because they were supposedly leaking. This was the final nail in the coffin, and these operators couldn't afford the $250,000 for this operation.

Never mind the fact that the extra three cents was a much better deal. Did it stop people from abandoning their preference for cheaper self-service?

Every now and then, I would hear these owners snicker about someone who needed someone to pull them out of the ditch or fix their car or change their oil, and they would return to their service station asking for a trained specialist. Just like we get an occasional client who has screwed up doing TurboTax. But the owner-operators finally disappeared.

Are we any different? Remember, these folks have no clue to what they don't know about. TurboTax convinces them that their return will be as good as one prepared by a CPA. Millions of taxpayers believe this whether it is true or not.

[taxmandan]

Why I chose my software company

So there are pros/cons on this issue. However, I still don't like the fact that my Professional Software Company that I have to pay big $$ for, is putting a lesser version on the open market available to taxpayers and competing for my business.

Is this Free Enterprise?

Sandy

This is one of the reasons I chose my tax software company, they have admantly refused to joing the Free efile consortium. They openly state that they won't compete with their clients: professional tax preparers. Clearly the other companies lack this basic level of professional integrity.

[Black Bart]

Taxpayers are generally qualified

Isn't 'free file' only available to taxpayers below a certain income level? Or was that only one year?. Since the IRS wants everyone to efile, they have to offer a free version of something enabling everyone to efile. The software companies participate because they sell a lot of upgrades, and charge for everything else, including PRINTING a copy of your return. Do you know how many people I talk to that never printed a copy of the return? And if you don't print it, at least with the web version of TurboTax, you have NO idea of what is on the return. You can't actually see it. I don't know about the other software companies.

What I get to see is the CP2000s. Not to mention the EBE audits.

to Free File if their gross income is less than $54,000, which I think probably includes the majority of our customers (I'm speaking of the average preparer -- I'm sure there are some here who cater to a higher-income clientele).

I guess what I'm saying is that our usual arguments don't seem (to me) to address the problem.

As professionals, we (me, joan, you) are distressed that people carelessly and irresponsibly fail to copy tax returns, but the TT types that do it routinely will most likely never need a copy again unless applying for a loan, so they don't see it a shortcoming of TT. They got their refund and they don't really care what's on the return. For every 50 TT returns filed, I'd guess we "fix" maybe five and although some are poorly prepared and cost the taxpayer money, in many instances they will never realize it. Even five very stiff fees won't make up for 45 lost sheep (I don't think the loss is that high just yet, but I believe it's growing). Too, if taxpayers punch their numbers in right, an audit's a long shot.

As for the ethics of it; we can haughtily harumph with offended dignity about it all we want while we're looking down our virtuous noses at those double-crossing, money-making, unprofessional suppliers of professional software (19 companies offer Free File). Meanwhile, taxpayers are choosing between low prices and us. That's a bad spot to be in (as Sam Walton once showed Main St. USA small business).