Drake vs. ProSeries Pro

[Lion]

Leaving ATX. Thinking Lacerte and UltraTax CS are overkill. Also thinking OrrTax/IntelliTax and TaxWorks are too much for the high volume preparer. Have maybe 100 moderate to complex 1040s and another 25 business entities. I'll be on my own for the first time ever, so want good diagnostics and customer support. Have kiddie tax issues and lots of Schedule D entries (Drake says for 2007 returns, you can import a spreadsheet) and resident plus non-resident states and Schedules C and E and want to efile almost everything. Love to hear what made your life easier (as far as tax software, that is) or harder last season. I'd spend $3,000 on an assistant, so anything less than that is a bargain if it has good diagnostics, ability to remember my print order needs, etc. Drake is currently $1,195 with $995 renewal; ProSeries Pro for the combination I'll need is about $1,700 or so (can't remember if I still qualify for free efile...) Thanks for any and all comments, your thoughts on strong points and weak points of either or both or any other software, etc.

[Gretel]

My practice is about the size yours is. I love ProSeries because I am dependent on good diagnostic tools and good customer support. I was delighted when they dropped the price two years ago (not really dropping but including e-file if ordered by July 1st).

Five years ago I helped another accountant who used Drake and I had a hard time doing the tax returns. One issue of course was I was not used to it but I also found the diagnostic by far not as good as ProSeries.

[Harvey Lucas]

I like Drake

I have used drake for 10 years.

If you want a simple to use program, that does practically everything, for a reasonable price, it is impossible to beat drake.

The program gets better every year.

The price has never gone up.

When you call support, someone always answers.

What else do you want?

Harvey Lucas

[Holland]

I do not think that you can use

other preparers's experience with software to choose what software you use. With that in mind, I went from ATX > ProSeries> Drake. I left ProSeries primarily because of support issues. Support is way better from Drake, I rate them as average. ProSeries has better diagnostics. Drake is much much easier to use and is significantly faster in processing returns. Drake throws in everything for one price, and if one or more of the included modules is useful to you, that is a gain. Drake is a very tight and small program, coming from ATX you will be amazed at how little computer and memory it requires.

[Golden Rocket]

Franklin NC

Drake was arguably the first tax software, dating back to the late 1970s. I remember visiting their office in Franklin, NC, which at the time was three rooms. They eventually bought out the store next to them and tripled their size. Next they moved to the public square and occupied one entire side of the square.

Less than two weeks ago I drove south from Dillsboro to Franklin over Cowee Mountain.
Winding down the mountain, overlooking Franklin is the new Drake headquarters. Congratulations to this pioneering and still independent software company.

I wish I could have used Drake. I never could get it to work on my computer, and no one else could get it to work on my computer either. But I have friends who use Drake and never seem to have a minute's trouble.

[BOB W]

[QUOTE=Lion;43078]Leaving ATX. Thinking Lacerte and UltraTax CS are overkill. Also thinking OrrTax/IntelliTax and TaxWorks are too much for the high volume preparer. Have maybe 100 moderate to complex 1040s and another 25 business entities. I'll be on my own for the first time ever, so want good diagnostics and customer support.QUOTE]

The one aspect that you may have not considered is your future growth. Buying to satisfy todays level of business may cause growth problems down the road. As you will learn, changing tax programs is no simple matter, although 100 clients is managable. Suppose you have 300 or more and you find that you do need those programs that are an "overkill" with all those bells and whistles. What then????

If you are thinking "Growth" you must consider the higher end programs. If your growth is going to be "Without" additional personel, you must consider the high end programs. Those "Bells and Whistles" may be meaningless to you now but you will need them as you grow otherwise you will spend much more money in other support areas to accomplish the same tasks.

In other words, you need to look at where you will be 5+ years from now and buy your tax and accounting programs to fit your plan. Changing programs is not a simple task even if a conversion program is provided by the new company. You don't want to be converting when you have 300 or more 1040s and 60 writeup/General Ledger/1120s. NO NO NO, I've been there and it is a horror. It will take years off of your life.

I would ramble on more, but you get the picture. Good Luck in your quest.

PS> I use Ultra Tax and CS's Accounting programs. If you are locked in to Drake or Proseries, go with Proseries. I too could never get Drake to work and neither could the Drake Rep???? But that was many years ago. Drake also seems to be slow with upgrades and new issues, like importing stock transaction from excell or other spreadsheets programs........What I like best about CS programs is their shared data file for all their programs. Talk about importing........................WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

[Joe Btfsplk]

Drake Software

Leaving ATX. Thinking Lacerte and UltraTax CS are overkill. Also thinking OrrTax/IntelliTax and TaxWorks are too much for the high volume preparer. Have maybe 100 moderate to complex 1040s and another 25 business entities. I'll be on my own for the first time ever, so want good diagnostics and customer support. Have kiddie tax issues and lots of Schedule D entries (Drake says for 2007 returns, you can import a spreadsheet) and resident plus non-resident states and Schedules C and E and want to efile almost everything. Love to hear what made your life easier (as far as tax software, that is) or harder last season. I'd spend $3,000 on an assistant, so anything less than that is a bargain if it has good diagnostics, ability to remember my print order needs, etc. Drake is currently $1,195 with $995 renewal; ProSeries Pro for the combination I'll need is about $1,700 or so (can't remember if I still qualify for free efile...) Thanks for any and all comments, your thoughts on strong points and weak points of either or both or any other software, etc.

I am switching from ATX to Drake. I also considered using TaxAct for 1040s and using Drake's pay-per-return for corporations, partnerships, etc. and for states not supported by TaxAct. I tried Drake a few years ago and did not like it, but it is vastly improved. It used to work like a DOS program, but now it works as good as any windows program I've ever used.

It takes some getting used to. One confusing item was getting it to print my 'signature'.
You have to enter your ID on a screen within each individual tax return. Another thing it took me a while to figure out was how to bill a flat rate like $ 100 instead of pricing each form separately. It might also be a little confusing to price each form for billing, but I didn't try doing it.

I had to use an override on one CO non-resident return in ATX. I tried it with Drake and the program took care of it with no problem. It may have been that ATX solved the problem with one of its constant updates to the program, but when I did the return it calculated the tax as if the client made 100% of his income in CO instead of 10%-or-so.

I'm not sure how Drake handles updates. I have no idea why ATX constantly updated its program since the early versions worked OK after the first 15 or 20 days. If you didn't update daily, any efiling, using ATX, would be OK if you efiled immediately, but if you had to wait a day or two for the client to sign the Form 8879, you would get a reject unless you updated immediately before you efiled it.

The last straw was when ATX discontinued its message board which usually provided a quick answer to any problem you had with the software--either from another user or from William Tasker who worked for ATX.

[Lion]

Thank you, all

Thank you everyone for your thoughts. I want to make a change now while I have only a dozen or so clients out of my home-based business, before I have 100-200. (Leaving a company at end of November.) But, I just turned 60 and won't be aggressively chasing growth. I believe that going out on my own makes sense if I can continue to work from home, avoid a commute in CT winters. That means maybe one assistant but not a big staff, and word of mouth marketing to replace leaving clients. My "growth" is in bigger more complex returns instead of more returns, as clients lives get more complicated. So, I do want a program that will handle complex individual returns and small businesses (all under 5-10 million in revenues, some way, way under). But, I don't need to manage a staff's productivity or follow the work flow of a return from associate to partner to.... I have poked around in UltraTax CS and Lacerte, but thought their strengths are in managing the staff, and that diagnostics are actually stronger in the simpler programs. Should I look a little harder? Also, in the past, Drake users have seemed absolutely fanatical; surprised I didn't hear more cheer leading from Drake users! I poked around in Drake a bit and then took their online Webinar yesterday. Of course, that pointed up their strengths and not their weaknesses. By the way, setting up form prices or return prices seems pretty straight forward, and over-riding a return price also seems easy. But, haven't seen much in the way of diagnostics yet; need to make some errors &/or omissions in a return or two and see how Drake does. So far, ProSeries diagnostics seem really good, and that's high on my priority list. Expect to have an administrative assistant but not another tax preparer in my office. Anyway, your comments all help me know what to give a good workout, help me pull out returns to try. Thank you very much.

[Kurly]

TaxWorks

Hey Lion

I am also a small at home business with just a few more clients than yourself. I started out with Lacerte many years ago, then changed over to TAXWorks, using their PUP Price Per Return method. now I have their full program. I like their in soft ware diagnosis for all returns, both individul and business, also the fact that the k-1s will roll over to the individual 1040. Email me iff I can be of any help if you decide to test TaxWorks.

Kurly

[Lion]

Thanks

Thanks, Kurly. I have installed the TaxWorks demo. Their purchase by H&R Block worries me, though. The TaxWorks marketing material stresses high volumes, fast preparation, and packaging with HRB's new bank product ANEW for RALs, etc.; not my clientele. I'm also concerned TaxWorks' tech support will slip with its large corporate ownership. Although, HRB does have almost idiot-proof diagnostics in their company-owned offices.... And, other message board members have told me they continue to renew TaxWorks.

Drake includes RIA checkpoint research online built into the program.

I have clients who bring me their QuickBooks disks; the Intuit products of course talk about importing QB, but so does Drake. I'll look around here to see if I kept a disk to try.

ProSeries let me reserve their software early with the then-current price (free efiling too) but not pay -- and can cancel -- up to shipping time in December. So, I locked in the price. But, I continue to evaluate. Think I'll make another pass at the high-end products.

Anyone have kiddie tax with multiple siblings? Does your software assist you or do you have to go around in circles until you've cycled through each of the kids? (That was a bonus to working at a company: I'd complete the parents and then wait until everyone'd gone home for the night and open up each sibling on a different computer and just go from one to the next until I cycled through the whole family.)

I didn't think I'd be evaluating software; thought I'd stick with ATX that I'd used as pay per return since I knew it. But, always felt it was weak in diagnostics; so when they closed down the message board and the online live chat with a techie, I was concerned about future tech support from the new owners and started calling for demos.

I'm trying hard to make a choice that will last me for years, figuring I'll probably give up and retire before I switch again!

[equinecpa]

In Somewhat the same Boat

Gosh darn it, I posted a lengthy reply to this thread yesterday and have no idea where it went.
I too am considering a switch from ATX to something else. I think one of the things we need to do when considering a switch is consider the strengths and weaknesses of our current program. For me:

ATX Weakenesses:

Program Inconsistencies: Fairly often I'll hit a snag and find a return is not calculating something correctly. I'll open another return and it'll calculate the same thing a different way.This irks me to no end.

ATX bought out : Will this software be around much longer?

Many updates during tax season -can't we have automatic updates?

Inability to add preparer notes to fields: I'd love to be able to tag fields for follow up

ATX Strengths:

I like the fact that the program has so many forms included, states, sales tax, payroll etc. It's very rare that I can't find a form I need in MAX

I like the ability to add a list to almost any field. Sometimes I'm adding data from several different sources -I can easily trace back where figures have come from.

And finally its price is fairly attractive for all that is included.

Can anyone recommend a software that is a)reliable b) does not have numerous manual updates throughout tax season and c) has the features I mentioned as likes?

I prepare approximately 125 personal returns (quite involved returns) and approx 30 1065's and 1120's along with many different states and sometimes multiple state filings. I efile when able.

One thing that has occurred to me is approximately 1/2 of my returns are done AFTER 04/15 -I was wondering if the PPR vendors normally unlock their software after 04/15? Perhaps I could afford a high end program if this is the case. Does any know which programs unlock after 04/15?

Carolyn

[JCH]

Drake & Kiddie Tax

[/QUOTE]
Anyone have kiddie tax with multiple siblings? Does your software assist you or do you have to go around in circles until you've cycled through each of the kids? (That was a bonus to working at a company: I'd complete the parents and then wait until everyone'd gone home for the night and open up each sibling on a different computer and just go from one to the next until I cycled through the whole family.)[/QUOTE]

I use Drake, and it doesn't handle kiiddie tax very well at all, particularlly if you're used to using a higher end software package. I just went through the exercise of kiddie tax with three separate children's returns, and had to overirde several fields, compute AMT and the 8615 by hand.

On the other hand, UltraTax handles kiddile tax very well, but you'll pass a premium for their software, which may be worth it.

[Lion]

Back to the Future

Back to the high end products again for a closer look. I have demos for Ultra Tax and Lacerte. Any others I should send for?

Kiddie tax is a biggie for me, especially now that the age is increasing yet again. I have several families with multiple siblings that have investment accounts (usually set up by the loving grandparents) and very high income parents. That's probably going to eliminate Drake. As the kids were getting older than 14, I was relaxing. But, now I'll be retired before all my families have outgrown kiddie tax!

Will I get good diagnostics in the high end software, or do they assume I have a large staff of flunkies that do data entry and research and proofread before giving me returns to review? Even on my best day, when I'm sleep deprived and the phones are ringing and deadlines are approaching, I want some hand holding, good diagnostics, and technical support. As much as I loved all the forms and states and everything available in ATX, their diagnostics weren't going to be good enough for me on my own.

By the way, one thing that was going to take me a long time to get used to in Drake is that you use ESC to save and move on. I'm used to using ESC to get out of a form WITHOUT saving, like I made several entries in error and need to return to the form the way it was before I messed around in it. That's the way in Excel and other MS Office products, too. Lots of software using the ESC key to leave without saving. In Drake, you right click and then choose exit without saving.

All of you out there who are evaluating software, please share the strengths and weaknesses that you are uncovering.

[LawrenceGR]

Proseries

I have been using Proseries for quite awhile, before that I used ATX. I once tried Drake but that was when it was a Dos program,I didn't like it. I have demoed Ultra Tax and thought it was a very good program however it was a little too expensive for my practice. I agree with one of the other posters who said you have to look to the future, when I changed from ATX to Proseries the cost increase was huge. My thinking was that I wanted a company that I could grow with, one that would not be bought out by someone else. I have tried Taxworks as well but I couldn't get used to their Adobe style form access. This year I have again signed on with Proseries and will also use Lacerte on a per return basis. You are really the one that best knows your practice and what will work best for you. Happy hunting.

[BOB W]

I have posted this comment in the past and some on the board didn't like the tone but here it is again.

Tax software is the most important single asset that you can own. It is your life blood and basis of having a successful practice. Many businesses invest hundreds of thousands of dollars just to yeild the kind of profits that some get doing tax returns and accounting. What $ investment does this profession incur? $10,000 or maybe $25,000. Most spend nothing more than buying a computer for $800- $1,000 and than look for a tax program for under $1,000, even some for under $100.

If you are going to do this profession get the best that is available, it will make you shine in front of your clients. Growth will come faster and self confidence will show through to all. Price should not be an issue.....................