Schedule A Deductions Line 20

[DOROTHY D]

I Have Client Who Has A Position At A California Casino Whose Job Is
To Fill In The Table Games As A Propositional Player. She Has To Play
When The Games Are Slow To Help Fill In The Tables. The Casino Does
Not Have Any Interest Whether She Wins Or Loses. Her Expenses
Comes When She Has To Post A Collection To Place Her Bets.
Her Cost Come From Each Bet That Is Placed By Her. It Cost Her $2.00
For Each Bet. This Is Her Expense. I Have Used Schedule A For Her
Deductions Line 20 To Write Off Her Expenses. According To The Irs
They Need A Case Study Or Case File To Approve This Deduction.
Please Help! I Have Limited Time On This Case.

Dorothy D

[Bees Knees]

I’ve never read a case study similar to this situation.

I do have a few questions:

1) If the Casino is paying her a wage to “Fill In The Table Games As A Propositional Player”, then why would they make her ”Post A Collection To Place Her Bets.” I would think that if that were her job, the Casino could afford not to charge her to do her job. Or at least offset that cost by an adjustment to her wages. Something is missing from this story. That might be why the IRS is not buying into the ordinary and necessary business expense argument you are trying to make.

2) Why Do You Type By Capitalizing Every Word In A Sentence? Is That Something You Always Do?

[Armando Beaujolais]

I Have Client Who Has A Position At A California Casino Whose Job Is
To Fill In The Table Games As A Propositional Player. She Has To Play
When The Games Are Slow To Help Fill In The Tables. The Casino Does
Not Have Any Interest Whether She Wins Or Loses. Her Expenses
Comes When She Has To Post A Collection To Place Her Bets.
Her Cost Come From Each Bet That Is Placed By Her. It Cost Her $2.00
For Each Bet. This Is Her Expense. I Have Used Schedule A For Her
Deductions Line 20 To Write Off Her Expenses. According To The Irs
They Need A Case Study Or Case File To Approve This Deduction.
Please Help! I Have Limited Time On This Case.

Dorothy D

I agree that something is missing. Is the client an employee or an independent contractor? If she's an employee it doesn't make sense that her losses would not be made up by the casino. They have to pay minimum wage. If she's an independent contractor, she should have been filing Schedule C as a professional gambler.

If it's straightforward, and she's an employee, she should have a W2, her winning should be included as income on her W2, and her losses would be employee business expenses. The statement you're looking for would come from the casino explaining that's what the relationship and business practices are.

It doesn't make sense. What casino is going to pay to have someone fill a seat at a $2 table? I didn't even know there were $2 tables out there any more. Even if they are, those are the tables that fill up most quickly, they wouldn't need someone to fill them.

[jainen]

props

>>It doesn't make sense. What casino is going to pay to have someone fill a seat at a $2 table?<<

All casinos have propositional players to keep the games lively. The "props" enjoy a house subsidy based on hours or, as this client, games played. I guess it's like a cruise ship hiring gigolos to keep the ladies happy on the dance floor, or the government paying journalists to... well, you get the idea.

I don't know about case law, but it shouldn't be hard to prove this is a standard industry practice. Since the worker bears the risk of loss on her own money, I would call her an independent contractor with Schedule C revenue and expenses.

[Armando Beaujolais]

>>It doesn't make sense. What casino is going to pay to have someone fill a seat at a $2 table?<<

All casinos have propositional players to keep the games lively. The "props" enjoy a house subsidy based on hours or, as this client, games played. I guess it's like a cruise ship hiring gigolos to keep the ladies happy on the dance floor, or the government paying journalists to... well, you get the idea.

I don't know about case law, but it shouldn't be hard to prove this is a standard industry practice. Since the worker bears the risk of loss on her own money, I would call her an independent contractor with Schedule C revenue and expenses.

I agree. I didn't think too much about the propositional player, it was the $2 table that threw me. Every time I take grandma out to the blackjack tables, the tables with the lowest bets are always full. It's the $10 and $25 and big limit tables that have lots of seats open. It's hard to imagine the casinos paying somebody to keep the low-limit tables full.

Not that I like to play blackjack. It's just for grandma.

It also sounds to me like Schedule C activity.

Dorothy, did your client get a W2?

[jainen]

a lady to you

"I'm sorry sir. This table is full right now. Why don't you get a drink and play the Ten for a while. I'm sure a seat will open up here pretty soon."

"Oh my, Lady Luck is certainly with you today. You should take her over to that other table where she can really be a lady to you!"