OrrTax/IntelliTax

[Lion]

I've just begun evaluating tax software. Installed IntelliTax tonight and went through their promo materials. I get the feeling it's aiming for a different type of tax preparer with a different clientele than mine. If so, I'll put them on the bottom of my stack and continue looking, spending more time with them if my time allows. Would appreciate if any IntelliTax users or evaluators would confirm or deny my first impression. It seems to be for an office or multiple store-front offices that do a lot of returns quickly with a fair "bank" business. Their promos push the bank products, keeping tabs on your staff of preparers (both in training and the interview method of data entry and in the tracking of your staff's productivity). It talked about their depreciation module as handling the more common situations; you can customize to meet other depreciation situations. You get a Spanish-speaking "where's my refund" line. IntelliTax seems to be a bit light on state non-personal returns.

I have CT clients with NYC careers (and maybe a rental in RI or AZ) and lots of investments and self-employed spouses in professions like real estate and kids with trust funds and kiddie tax. They need lots of attention and what-if scenarios and recalculating of their w/h &/or ES when they find out their bonus amounts or sell some stock options. I have partnerships and S-corporations and gift tax returns and estates. I give lots of personal attention year round and do lots of research. Some clients send me their QuickBooks files, so integration with QB would be a nice plus. I don't want to jump to conclusions too quickly and miss a gem, but I think a better match for me exists out there.

[DTS]

Software

Lion,

I talked to a gal many years ago that was the independent owner of a couple of HRB offices here in CA. She told me that's what she used (Orrtax) in her two offices. I don't remember if she told me that was mandatory or her choice. I've never heard of the other one. Maybe, someone can verify this for you.

I use TaxWorks as my software and have for the past three years. Fine software, but was bought out by HRB a few months ago, so will see how this season goes. I planned to find other software, but they offered such a good price (due to some customer dissatifaction with the HRB thing, I'm sure) I decided to stay one more year. If OK, may stay, may not. I was a Lacerte user. Fantastic, but extremely expensive.

At the end of this coming season, I'll demo UltraTax. Sounds good, many of our posters like using it. The attorney I used to work for uses it and loves it. I did not get to use it when I was there, as he used a different one then. That name escapes me at the moment. Anyway, I plan to call him and go in for a day and dummy-up some returns and see how it is.

Dennis

[JohnH]

Ultra Tax / ATX

I used Ultra Tax for several years before switching over to ATX a couple of years back. ATX offers the most for the money, but we're all nervous about where it's headed. Ultra Tax is a great program and I'll probably go back to it if I decide not to continue with ATX - the jury is still out on that question. I can tell you that if you use Ultra Tax you'll need to get out the big check book. My numbers may be off, but I believe that what you get from ATX for $1,500 will cost about $6,000 from Ultra Tax for the same features.

[DTS]

Ultra Tax

John,

When I talked to the rep at UT, I figured for me about $2,300, plus extra $$ for each entity per return, $39??? Plus e-filing, etc.

Don't rely on my numbers, I could be off.

Dennis

[JohnH]

What does that include?

Dennis:
Your figures may be more reliable, but are you including research and business returns as well in the $2K?

[DTS]

Price

John,

The $2,300 was only for the 1040 module. Any entity I prepare, I would need to pay for on a pay-per-return basis, which I believe is $39 each. E-file is $3/2, but was included in the $2,300 along with something else, but I can't remember now what that was. That would be all I would order. These figures are just round numbers and may not be so accurate, but they're close.

Dennis

[Uncle Sam]

I agree with Dennis's numbers.
I'm a UltraTax user and my renewal Fed and State was about $ 2600. And the extra $ 39 for per return pricing for partnerships and corporation returns, $ 2 for e-filing.
Their tech support (U. S. tech support only) is EXCELLENT. They're patient with seeing to it you're problem is solved. That is the reason I renew. The fact that it's higher priced doesn't bother me.
I came to UltraTax because MicroVision (Tax Relief) sold out to Thompson 4 years ago., where we were price locked for 3 years and decided that rather than shop around - smaller companies would probably have a lower price tag, but eventually will be bought out by the Big Guys sooner or later - and waste more time in conversion again.

[JohnH]

I was way off on the $

Looks like I need to rely less and less on my memory. Maybe I was thinking of the higher price for a multi-user site license - just can't remember. Not trying to justify the estimate, just trying to figure out why I was so out of line.

I've converted several times over the years and never found that to be a big problem, although it does require some careful cross-checking in the conversion year. But then I only prepare a couple of hundred personal returns and about 50 business returns so that isn't difficult to do.

In any event, there's no question Ultra Tax is an excellent program. It has numerous features I like, especially with its customizable data base for storing inputs. I also like the shoebox input for the schedule A, and it provides an almost unlimited ability to track client status & do some data mining. I'm fairly certain that if I jump ship from ATX I'll go back to Ultra Tax, and I'd recommend it to anybody.

[BOB W]

I too went from Micro Vision to Ultra Tax, My renewal fees are a little bit higher because I am networked and am fully intergrated with almost all their products.

When I work, client processing is a snap by making use of their intergrated "tech". For those that don't what I mean, all work flows from one program to another seemlessly, eliminating redundant entries and time.

[Lion]

Very Helpful

All your comments are very helpful. Ultra Tax is one of the demos I received. Think I'll leave OrrTax/IntelliTax for now and look into Ultra Tax next. Also have ProSeries Pro and Lacerte and Drake, but don't have any pricing on Lacerte (except for the ProSeries salesman saying Lacerte is twice as expensive). ATX is still in the mix, but concerned about support; same concern with TaxWorks and its new parent company HRB. I paid so little for ATX, but an assistant would cost me $3,000. So, if I can pay less than that for software that helps me during the stressful, busy, sleep-deprived final days of tax season, it'll be worth it. Good diagnostics, multiple state returns, kiddie tax, depreciation, sales of business assets/of businesses (why are so many of my LLCs selling and starting new ones?!), printing professional-quality client copies, easy backups, computing return price, etc. So far (except for Lacerte where I don't have pricing info) all the software packages for my projected mix of returns with efiling have been under $3,000 even with no early-bird specials.

[sea-tax]

Lion Lacerte is a wonderful program and it does have all the bells and whistles similar to UT. The 1040 only program runs around $2000 I think and each module is about the same. I think the PPR is a $300 setup fee and then like $40 per return. You can get a 10% discount each for early renewal and if you are an HD Vest Rep.

I personally have only used Lacerte and have also limited use of Taxwise and ATX. I personally was not impressed with either of the two. Speaking with others who do use these products at seminars and accounting groups I belong to, it seems that they work well for the price but unlike lacerte they can lower productivity. Lacerte allows me to be more productive , maybe because I have used it all these years but the features like their diagnostics and the like are immeasurable time savers.

[BOB W]

All your comments are very helpful. Ultra Tax is one of the demos I received. I paid so little for ATX, but an assistant would cost me $3,000. So, if I can pay less than that for software that helps me during the stressful, busy, sleep-deprived final days of tax season, it'll be worth it. .

During Tax season ( ending April 1 st) I complete 400 personals and 50 Entities without any help, but using ELF on everyone. I print client copy only, staple w-2 and off in the mail it goes back to the client. Then I move on to the next return. After tax season I do another 50 personals and 20 Entities. No help required with Ultratax, ELF and packaging.

In your first year you will experience less productivity, after that, most client interviews will be 10-20 minutes for those $125-175 returns. As I'm thinking about it, the more complicated returns, 30 minute interviews that I bill $250 and up really don't take that much more time after the interview is over. But I do spend time doing a final review before printing and packaging.

[Kong]

Works great for me.

Lion-I have been an Orrtax/Intellitax user since 1992 when dos ruled. Then windows based program was introducted. GREAT! My base consists of 500+ clients. Few partnerships, couple corporations and 85% indiviual returns. Have bank product clients but they total only 110. Gets the work done for me. I am networked peer-to-peer, and setting up for new tax year is a snap. This year during April 6 in the A.M., I had complete system failure, 440 clients done up to this point.. Had back up computer system (seasoned tax preparer recommended in prior years). Called customer support, explained situation and support had me up and running in about 3-4 hours. This in itself was worth the price. I paid for the super system setup individual and Business ($755.00). Recieve calls from different company's giving away thier software if I jump ship. I will not reinvent the wheel, if not broken. I am a very pleased Intellitax client.