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Dealing with Kiddie Tax in 2008

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    Dealing with Kiddie Tax in 2008

    Kram BergGold has already started a thread related to the changes in the kiddie tax rules, but I would like some advice from a slightly different perspective.

    Excerpt is from a recent NY Times article: "The new law raises the applicable age to under 19, or to under 24 for students who do not earn enough to provide more than half of their own support."

    I thought it was bad enough when things went from under age 14 (thought I was finished with that!) to under 18. Under 19 is another twist of the knife, but the "under 24 for students etc" really bothers me.

    I assume there are MANY parents who still legitimately claim their children as dependents throughout their college years. Many/most of those college-age students are working summer or part-time jobs during school and have income tax returns to file. With this "improved" kiddie tax hanging over their heads (yes, I realize there is a fairly high floor for investment income) it is quite possible that a large number of tax returns for dependents will now be delayed until the parents' own tax returns can be finalized. Such roadblocks could easily prevent the students from filing their own tax returns until late in the tax season and, in many cases, even later due to extended tax return filing for their parents who have unusual or complicated tax returns.

    It is also a reasonable assumption that numerous parents/students will have been selling stocks to generate college funds, and the profit from such sales alone can soon easily bring on the new "improved" kiddie tax.

    My own child has stock funds that have been growing over the years, and those funds were specifically intended for college purposes. I now wonder if it might not be better to dispose of those funds soon (NO kiddie tax) versus post 1/1/08 (new kiddie tax applies assuming I'm reading things correctly).

    Any board members input will be appreciated. Aside from my personal involvement in this issue, I can also foresee many of my own clients (and their dependents!) who will not be terribly pleased with the inconveniences of dealing with Form 8615.

    FE

    #2
    Is This For Real?

    Mr. Duke, please forgive me for not staying up on research for future years, but are you telling me that beginning in 2008, children under 18 will launch the "kiddie tax", just as children under 14 do now?

    If so, this is HUGE.

    And carrying your observation further, what about parents who want to claim children forever -- those who claim their kids are still their dependents because they go to school until age 24?

    If so, I have clients who will be FURIOUS.

    Comment


      #3
      That already happened for 2006!

      ... please forgive me for not staying up on research for future years, but are you telling me that beginning in 2008, children under 18 will launch the "kiddie tax", just as children under 14 do now?
      The extension of the kiddie tax to children under 18 instead of under 14 took place last year. It is now being extended still further.

      Comment


        #4
        More on 2007 tax strategy

        Originally posted by Corduroy Frog View Post

        And carrying your observation further, what about parents who want to claim children forever -- those who claim their kids are still their dependents because they go to school until age 24?

        If so, I have clients who will be FURIOUS.
        Assuming links are allowed (guess I'll find out??), here is a nice article from IBD:



        Pay particular attention to the "no-brainer strategy" discussion.

        Oh yes: You can include ME in that "Furious" category also!!!!!!!!

        FE

        Comment


          #5
          Knee-Jerk Change

          I'm sure most of you have thought this out.

          Some parents (especially mothers) believe since they had a child, there is a God-given right to claim these children forever, as long as they hang around the house. I've lost more than one client over the matter. [Offside: one child was receiving more in social security benefits than her mother's entire gross income, and there were four other children]

          Conversation will ensue as follows:

          Client: "I want to claim Billy. He's still at home."
          Frog: "Does he work?"
          Client: "Oh, he's got a little job down at Burger King."
          Frog: "How much did he make?"
          Client: "I dunno. Billy, bring me your W-2."
          [Billy drags out a 1040-EZ he filled out himself and I can tell
          that he has already claimed himself. Teenager looks disgusted
          with the whole discussion and then vroooms off in his car]
          Frog: "Looks like he made $6000. Has he put any money in the
          bank for college?"
          Client: "Are you kidding? All he does is put gas in his car and
          begs us for money to spend at the movies, video games, and
          cellphones."
          Frog: "If he made $6000, and you furnish over 50% of his support,
          then his total support must be over $12000. Can we show
          this?"
          Client: "@%&#%&%^!!! I had this kid, and I support him. He
          blows all his money and we furnish room, board, clothes,
          and spending money."
          Frog: "OK, if we claim him as a dependent, then YOU will have
          to pay on his $6000 income. I can file so that HE claims the
          income, but he will have to pay at your rates."
          Client: "WHAT? I never heard of such a thing!!!!"
          Frog: "I haven't either, until this year. It's new."
          Client: We'd be better off if Billy claims hisself."
          Frog: "Exactly. But he can't. You just swore up and down that
          you furnish over half of his support."
          Client: Well, you know what we mean. When we told you that we
          didn't know it was going to cost us money....

          Get ready for this one, folks!

          Comment


            #6
            My observations:.

            Corduroy Frog, I think your secenario is flawed. The son had EARNED income. Not investment income. So, the parent would not be taxed on that income. And if the child did indeed supply more than half his support, no dependent exemption for parent. But, parent could still have child for EIC. That requires age, relationship, and residency. But, not dependency.

            I read the article. It said that if the child supplied more than half their own support, then the kidde tax rules would not apply. Well, right, because that child cannot be claimed as a dependent.
            You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.

            Comment


              #7
              Kiddie Tax

              I agree with White.
              Frog-your telephone conversation only discussed EARNED INCOME. If son had $6000 from Burger King - and no other income - the kiddie tax would not apply - no matter what age he is.
              Remember - kiddie tax only kicks in when there's PORTFOLIO income exceeding the limits.
              Son could be earning $ 60,000 from Burger King-if he's a college student (5 mo. rule)-parents could still claim him-and no kiddie tax.
              Uncle Sam, CPA, EA. ARA, NTPI Fellow

              Comment


                #8
                Not Encountered

                Apologies for the theatrical discussion and thanks to the Oleander and Sam.

                Quite honestly, I've never encountered anyone subject to the Kiddie Tax under 14 who had earned income. So I was poorly researched when I presented my theoretical dialogue.
                I should have read the links.

                Thank goodness there are people who read and are willing to correct when one of us errs.
                Thanks again!

                The Frog

                Comment


                  #9
                  Kiddie Tax

                  Frog-don't feel bad. We ALL make judgmental errors on the board-and are embarrassed after it's been pointed out to us. It's happened to me plenty of times.
                  What's important is that it makes you more keenly aware of what to do when dealiing with clients.
                  What we do internally on this board is one thing-how it effects our dealings with clients is quite another.
                  Uncle Sam, CPA, EA. ARA, NTPI Fellow

                  Comment


                    #10
                    No apologies needed

                    Originally posted by Corduroy Frog View Post
                    Apologies for the theatrical discussion and thanks to the Oleander and Sam.

                    Quite honestly, I've never encountered anyone subject to the Kiddie Tax under 14 who had earned income

                    The Frog
                    No apologies needed, C Frog. I actually enjoyed your story, flawed as it might be. Believe me, I have heard far more outlandish "arguments" over the years.

                    Quite frankly, I am personally going to find it difficult to think "kiddie tax" for the tax return of a junior in college. Heretofore (prior to 2006) it has been unlikely that a person requiring a kiddie tax form would have any significant employment income.

                    And from an accountant's viewpoint, I generally despise putting up with Form 8615 because of the interactions with the parents' tax returns, especially if there is more than one "kiddie" involved. Capital gains activity by the child(ren) and the parents just muck up things even more!

                    FE

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Absolutely no apologies. When I was reading the thread I thought, Oh wow, maybe they have changed it to include earned income for kiddies. So, it was a good post to see what might be changing.

                      Remember, as someone here has in their sig. line, Iron sharpens Iron.
                      You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        long term cap gains tax rate

                        an article i read summarized the partial closing of this 'loophole' -

                        the ltcg tax rate (on qual dividends and stock sales) for 2008 is going to 0% for those in the 10/15% tax bracket. the intent of the law was for retired people (or others who qualified) to pay the lower rate - not for 'rich' parents to shift the lower rate to dependent children.

                        Comment

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