CPE & Related Travel Expense

[Jiggers]

I am required by the IRS to take CPE to maintain my EA license.

Found a great seminar at a resort. The seminar is for 40 hours CPE and is different from any CPE that I can receive locally.

Can I go to this resort for the 40 hours CPE, spend a few extra days at the resort, and write off my travel to and from the resort for the seminar?

And write off my hotel that covers the days of the seminar?

And write off my meals on the days of the seminar?

I know I can't write off any days that are only personal.

[erchess]

Write the whole trip off

and then see how much you get to keep if you get audited.

But seriously I can't cite code but I think what you propose is legal.

[Gretel]

...and if you can document that you only stayed longer because airline tickets were much cheaper that way, you might be able to deduct all hotel costs. Of course they need to be less than the airline ticket would have cost.

[New York Enrolled Agent]

Jiggers writes "spend a few extra days at the resort... "

Like most tax questions - it depends. What's a "few extra" days after the CPE session?
Like 3 days of CPE and then 8 extra days - Uhm!!!
Or 8 days of CPE and then 3 extra days. Trip must be primarily for business. Also special rules if travel is outside U.S. Look at §274

[Jiggers]

CPE Travel

Looking at one day travel to resort in Hawaii. One day travel from.

5 full days, 8 hours each, of CPE.

Personal time is one day before CPE, and maybe 6 days afterwards.

This is seminar put on by Gear-Up.

[jainen]

the seminar itself

>>5 full days, 8 hours each, of CPE. Personal time is one day before CPE, and maybe 6 days afterwards.<<

NONE of the travel, hotel, meal, or incidental costs are deductible. Zero, zip, nada. Only the direct costs of attending the seminar itself.

[outwest]

To clarify..

the reason is that 7 personal days > 5 business days. Which points to the obvious solution: limit to 4 personal days.

And even if the trip is primarily personal, you can still take the lodging and meals for the business days for you only. But not a spouse or companion.

And here are the regs:
Regs. Sec. 1.162-2. Traveling expenses.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


(a) Traveling expenses include travel fares, meals and lodging, and
expenses incident to travel such as expenses for sample rooms, telephone
and telegraph, public stenographers, etc. Only such traveling expenses as
are reasonable and necessary in the conduct of the taxpayer's business and
directly attributable to it may be deducted. If the trip is undertaken for
other than business purposes, the travel fares and expenses incident to
travel are personal expenses and the meals and lodging are living
expenses. If the trip is solely on business, the reasonable and necessary
traveling expenses, including travel fares, meals and lodging, and
expenses incident to travel, are business expenses. For the allowance of
traveling expenses as deductions in determining adjusted gross income, see
section 62(2)(B) and the regulations thereunder.

(b)--

(1) If a taxpayer travels to a destination and while at such
destination engages in both business and personal activities,
traveling expenses to and from such destination are deductible only
if the trip is related primarily to the taxpayer's trade or business.
If the trip is primarily personal in nature, the traveling expenses
to and from the destination are not deductible even though the
taxpayer engages in business activities while at such destination.
However, expenses while at the destination which are properly
allocable to the taxpayer's trade or business are deductible even
though the traveling expenses to and from the destination are not
deductible.

(2) Whether a trip is related primarily to the taxpayer's trade or
business or is primarily personal in nature depends on the facts and
circumstances in each case. The amount of time during the period of
the trip which is spent on personal activity compared to the amount
of time spent on activities directly relating to the taxpayer's trade
or business is an important factor in determining whether the trip is
primarily personal. If, for example, a taxpayer spends one week while
at a destination on activities which are directly related to his
trade or business and subsequently spends an additional five weeks
for vacation or other personal activities, the trip will be
considered primarily personal in nature in the absence of a clear
showing to the contrary.

(c) Where a taxpayer's wife accompanies him on a business trip, expenses
attributable to her travel are not deductible unless it can be adequately
shown that the wife's presence on the trip has a bona fide business
purpose. The wife's performance of some incidental service does not cause
her expenses to qualify as deductible business expenses. The same rules
apply to any other members of the taxpayer's family who accompany him on
such a trip.

[erchess]

What would be the tax consequences

if the CPE Provider and the Resort got together and decided that the cost of the seminar is a given amount, and it includes food and lodging for not only the professional but also the immediate household members of the professional plus entertainment for everyone outside of class and for the household members the entire time? What if also included were personal days equal to one fewer than the instructional days?

When I was in MLM I found that I was supposed to go to rather frequent gatherings in luxury destinations. If I had had a family, bringing them would generally have added comparatively little to my cost and they would have had a blast, yet I was encouraged to think that I could deduct all the expenses from my taxes. I got out when I realized that I was being encouraged to think that being able to deduct the expenses amounted to reimbursement for the expenses and that I was being encouraged to think that if I were clever enough all of my personal expenses could be deducted.

[Davc]

if the CPE Provider and the Resort got together and decided that the cost of the seminar is a given amount, and it includes food and lodging for not only the professional but also the immediate household members of the professional plus entertainment for everyone outside of class and for the household members the entire time? What if also included were personal days equal to one fewer than the instructional days?
.

Probably specific code sections inspired by our profession similar to the rules regarding conventions on cruise ships for which we can thank the doctors.

[veritas]

Sitting in a classroom

for 8 hours a day in Hawaii? No thanks. It would kill me.

[erchess]

I've got to agree

with Veritas here. They hold these wonderful educational conferences in resort locations where I would not be much inclined to think about taxes or business. HI takes the cake for me. I'd rather not be tempted away from taxes by more than would be in virtually any major city in the US.

[jainen]

Foster City

>>They hold these wonderful educational conferences in resort locations<<

I'm spending Tuesday in Foster City, California. Form 706 in the morning; 1041 in pm. A good time for you all to gossip about me because I won't be able to read or respond.

[dsi]

Next week I'll be spending in good old Reno, NV attending the CSEA Super Seminar. These are usually a lot of fun as well as educational. Of course, should I find the right slot machine....{g}

[George Boutwell]

I'm spending Tuesday in Foster City, California.

From Wikipedia: Foster City is an affluent planned city located in San Mateo County, California. As of the 2000 census, the city had a total population of 28,803. Foster City was founded in the 1960s on engineered landfill in the marshes of the San Francisco Bay, on the east edge of San Mateo. The city was named after T. Jack Foster, a real estate magnate who owned much of the land comprising the city and who was instrumental in the initial design. His successor firm, Foster Enterprises, run by his descendants, is still active in real estate affairs throughout the San Francisco Bay area. Foster City is the home to the world headquarters of VISA International, the main corporate body of the VISA payment card organization. Additional offices for the Visa USA corporate headquarters opened in San Francisco in 1999, but were closed in 2006. Foster City is one of the nation's safest cities. There is an average of one murder per decade. The movie "Over the Edge" is based upon events occurring in Foster City.

[jainen]

2/3 of San Francisco Bay

>>engineered landfill in the marshes of the San Francisco Bay<<

More than 2/3 of San Francisco Bay has been filled in and built on over the last 150 years. You'd think we would talk about that a lot, at least because of the earthquakes if not the wetlands destruction, but we don't.