Here it comes!

[Girard Van De Lay]

I Agree

with all of the post. I have used Drake for the past 5 years and really like the program. The one thing that I know is that if they ever sold to any big company like HR or intuit then I would not be back the following year. It is just one more way for all of these other big business to take out the little guys.


Girard

[Snaggletooth]

Drake

Drake is one of the oldest companies in the tax software business, with roots in the 1970s. Mr. Drake was an IBM programmer who retired to the bucolic mountain community of Franklin, NC. I don't know exactly when Mr. Drake died, but his children took over the business in the fledgling years of tax software development. In the heyday of DOS, Drake was considered a Cadillac product.

I have personally met Phil Drake, their president - ate lunch with him just before he dressed up in fatigues and went hunting. Not exactly the stereotype corporate mogul.

Drake continues today, and at last report, has not raised their price of $995 for years and years. This is no longer a "Cadillac" price.

I used Drake one year, and it had performance issues on my computer, but very few programming problems. Technical support was OK. I would have used Drake to this very day, but never could get it to run without halts on my PC.

So long as Drake remains independent, they should deserve loyalty among their users, so long as they maintain their product. They have not showed signs of selling out, inflating their prices, or becoming too "corporate" for their customers.

[S T]

What makes you think

Snags or anyone else,

What makes you think that these companies, like Drake, Orr tax, Tax Works (which did) or some of the other independents are not going to sell out. $$ They all do it seems!

I was with an old company that no one will recognize back in the 80's, they sold out, I went to CCh and the rep gave me a "special deal" for many years , he got fired (so then couldn't afford CCH ), so went to Lacerte, they sold out to Intiuit, (multiple price hikes) went to TaxWorks and now they have made a deal with HRB!.

so what is the answer, we need the software, I can't program and do taxes as well.

Snags, do you have an answer to this ongoing issue that we have as tax preparers?

Are you suggesting that we all "band together" and form some type of a "co-op" to initialize a software program???

Snags, do you have a resolve to our issues with Tax Software??

Sandy

[Snaggletooth]

I just might

Sandy, I just might. I'm probably not smart enough, and certainly not on my own. Here are some possibilities. Can I neutralize the basic laws of economics? Probably not.

I can tell you this much. Unchecked, this consolidation will continue until there are only two viable companies left. Your last post tells your story, and there is no reason to believe this process won't continue. For example, what if all ownership were in the hands of Intuit and HRBlock? Make no mistake about it, neither one of these two giant companies have the well-being of the small practitioner foremost in their agendae. And as you can imagine, the IRS will be perfectly happy if all taxpayers can resort only to solutions which fail to save them money, and are denied real expertise.

Do you think the resulting two giant software companies will really compete on either quality or price? Before you answer, buy a 10 oz. bottle of Ketchup from either Heinz, Del Monte, or Hunts. They are all 99 cents. It is no coincidence.

Solutions? Here are a few.

1) I haven't given up on the ability of true enterprenueral skill to develop alternative software. Remember, when a corporation takes over from a successful company built upon innovation and ingenuity, these traits eventually suffer a death knell at the hands of amoral policies, slick marketing, and corporatespeak. We are not that far removed from the time and talent from which this innovation sprang - certainly no more than 10-20 years.
Large corporations cannot compete with these small, innovative people in any way other than to throw big money at their solutions. Lots of advertising dollars, campaigns, inefficiencies, etc. Absolutely no bang for their buck.

I like the comment from Bees Knees - when the big fish swallow the little fish, some of the little fish always get away.

2) Can we organize? Historically, we never have. We have groups like NATP and NAEA, but neither of these regard software consolidation as a threat. At least not yet. But these groups are comprised primarily of people just like us -- small, independent tax offices. Yes, we have the capability of organizing. Whether we will or not is a different question.

3) This solution already exists and requires no future action but collectivity. What if 75% of software users are fed up enough to migrate from the ProSeries, LaCerte, ATX, etc. and next year purchased independent packages from companies like TaxSlayer, Drake, and others if they exist? The whole industry would undergo a reversal of consolidation. Enough money would flow into the coffers of the smaller packages that they would improve their programming, forms, support, etc.

To borrow a strain from Handel's Messiah - "Are we like sheep?" Are we just like other consumers, to be duped by whatever the big power structures decide to do with us? Or are we innovative and free-thinking enough to collectively have a say-so in our destiny?

I've waded into these waters with three suggestions -- there are bound to be more. Can someone take pot-shots and shoot down these suggestions? Of course they can if they wish. There have always been Fulton's Folly and Seward's Icebox. Sandy, thanks for the challenge!

[George Boutwell]

To borrow a strain from Handel's Messiah - "Are we like sheep?"

Misheard lyrics are known as mondegreens. What Handel wrote was,

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

[Black Bart]

Snag (aka Monte Green)

Solutions?...What if 75% of software users are fed up enough to migrate from the ProSeries, LaCerte, ATX, etc. and next year purchased independent packages from companies like TaxSlayer, Drake, and others if they exist? The whole industry would undergo a reversal of consolidation. Enough money would flow into the coffers of the smaller packages that they would improve their programming, forms, support, etc.

That's not a bad idea. Maybe we should roll down the price slope instead of climbing up it. By the way, what about that guy, Hill, who wrote our small 1099/W2 package (Busiforms)? Is he in the business again?

[jainen]

with a pencil

>>What Handel wrote was, All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.<<

Handel didn't actually write that himself. He copied it from an older book--I forget what exactly, but it was published by a man with a funny name like Guten Tag or something.

Anyway, the problem is not everyone going their own way. It's everyone falling in line.

The current outlook for a major new competitor is poor but not impossible. The threshhold to enter the field is very high--tax software is a complex product with little room for error, and the IRS itself guards the door. It changes in unpredictable ways every year, and there are all the separate states as well. Any new program is not going to come out of someone's home office.

But it could come from an aggressive coalition, perhaps in India where our tax software is already well-known. We have seen successful rivals to our most powerful industries before, like automobiles. And we have seen the mighty collapse under their own arrogance and greed.

A good example of my point is that Microsoft is selling its new Vista operating system for $3 in China. They were so concerned about security issues that the program can hardly function in some ways, and in a market where open-source piracy is rampant the Big Guy is in trouble.

My prediction for the near future is that I will continue to use Intuit for my main work, with pay-per-return or fill-in-forms for occasional entities. I'll supplement that with other kinds of modules such as a generic spreadsheet and a word processor, Tax Tools or equivalent, and various specialized calculators and the like.

But I'll still do 1031 exchanges with a pencil.

[Snaggletooth]

All we like sheep?

Misheard lyrics are known as mondegreens. What Handel wrote was,

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

I stand corrected by the ever-vigilant Boutwell. Actually, I didn't think Handel wrote ANY of the lyrics - I thought most of them were from the KJV of Isaiah...

[George Boutwell]

Vandal stole the Handel

The lyrics were "compiled" from many books of the KJV (which, in the previous century, was compiled by a committee -- the last time that method worked) by a guy from Leicestershire (which has three syllables) named Charles Jennens. Handel spent some time at Jennens' estate near Gopsall, which had been the home of Sir Thomas Merry, accountant for the King James household, who was an investor in the Virginia Company that settled Jamestown.

[oceanlovin'ea]

Taxslayer Pro

was formed by a tax preparation company who decided to write their own program when they got tired of dealing with the problems that come from programmers who don't know anything about taxes writing programs. Iit is very user friendly.
Since they still have quite a few tax prep offices running, I don't think they would sell out to one of these large companies because they would be back in the same boat they were in before they started their company.

I have used Taxslayer Pro since 2000 and have been satisfied with the product. Each year they make improvements to their program. There are a few forms that they don't have the capabilities to use right now, at least that was true a couple of years ago.

But support is very great. I haven't ever had a problem getting someone to help with a problem.

The price is reasonable considering you get 1040 module, business module and all the states for one price.

Sometimes I too wonder if there is something better out there for a comparable price or cheaper but when you have to renew by April 30th for next year to get the discount you really don't have time to check out the competition. I really wish they would give us until the end of May to renew.

Linda F