Lobbying

[Donanita]

Is this how-hope it works

[QUOTE=Bees Knees]Instead of clicking on the "Post Reply" button on the lower left, click on the "Quote" button on the lower right of the post you want to quote from. Then in the message box that appears, erase the portion of the quote you don't want, leaving the portion of the quote that you do want.

[Donanita]

didn't work right

oh well,will live to try again another day

[JON]

So we all agree the Code is a mess!!!!

I believe the AICPA does spend bizillions in DC. A portion of our dues are not deductable. They have to try to own some Reps and Senators to just keep some of us out of jail. The President's advisory group which was made up of both sides of the isle came up with items I would agree with as a start. About 60% of the IRS audit staff is on EICs. I guess that is a break for me-as I probably do not have any that qualify, but if the system is that bad that enforcement costs that much it is time for a change. The problem in the US is a lot of the regulations and laws are made based on who WHINES the best with money.

The President's advisory group estimated "if" everything was enacted that it would decrease the number of paid preparers by 50%. The best comment was from an ex-Senator who stated that what they came up with is a good start and it "should" be adopted. He went on to say what should be done does not always happen in Congress, and next year is aan election year. An election year is where we allow Congress to do even less than normal so they will not create any bad feelings while they are trying to get reelected.

I already voted today. Local election and age means I knew most running for City positions and new none running for the school board. School board was the only hot election.

I am rambling. CHANGE the CODE.

[jainen]

Get in line

We change the code all the time, and people still complain. The deal is that taxation itself is a mechanism of government control, not simply a way to raise money.

It wasn't that way originally, but now we use the tax code for all sorts of policy incentives and restrictions. If you replaced the current tax code you would create chaos in social and economic matters, the very structure of our democracy. Just look at how often we define current issues using tax terms--today's headline is about a windfall profits tax on oil profits.

So you want to convince half the Congress to do up the law your way? Get in line like all the other special interests.

[jainen]

the back of the line

Rep. Robert Ney (R-Ohio) just reported he set up a legal defense fund related to the investigation of indicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff. Do you really think you can change the tax code, Jon? When you get in line, take notice that you are at the back of the line.

[Armando Beaujolais]

Ah, lemme see if I have this right.

Twelve members of the House Ways and Means Committee (where tax law originates), and not a single member does his or her own tax return.

They don't have a clue. That's why you see so many tax initiatives that seem not to have considered the ripple effects all the way through the code. Somebody has a bright idea like "Let's make depreciation on like-kind exchanges easy as pie like all you did was buy new property." Then they spend the next ten years mucking up the treatment of business use automobiles because none of the nitiwits who wrote the rule had any idea what effect it would have. And on and on.

The new energy bill has alternative motor vehicle credit, alternative fuel vehicle refueling property credit, nonbusiness energy property credit, residential energy efficient property credit, energy efficient home credit, energy credit, energy efficient commercial building deduction, credit for energy efficient appliances.

Will somebody please sneak some decaf into Congress' coffee supply? You might want to test them for crack while you're at it.

No, a flat tax, etc., will never happen, for the reasons that have been stated. However, I believe I have a proposal that would work.

Pass a law that requires every member of the House Ways and Means Committee to prepare their own tax return. You'd see real reform real quick.

[Gene V]

quote

Pass a law that requires every member of the House Ways and Means Committee to prepare their own tax return. You'd see real reform real quick.

Now that quote is worth repeating

Pass a law that requires every member of the House Ways and Means Committee to prepare their own tax return. You'd see real reform real quick.

[JON]

Stories

What I was talking about has nothing to do with the "flat" tax. If I understand this right all think the tax code is not a good document, but it should not be changed because the system is in place. These were Democrats and Republicans-it was not a rewriting of the code, but changes that had to remain revenue neutral-net. As said before things that "should" be done it would be nice to do them. Thewy believe 50% of tax preparers would be out of a job, if it was passed.. Alternative Minimum gone, limitations on mortgage interest etc would drop millions off of the tax rolls. Included lots of other things.

Whoever needed or wanted a professional tax preparer will still get one. I think a limitation on mortgage interest would be great(it would be a 15% credit with max' set by locality) I do not know about no state tax deduction-ouch I'm in Minnesota>>>>

Congress is broken and will not be fixed any time soon...

[Bees Knees]

Now that quote is worth repeating

Pass a law that requires every member of the House Ways and Means Committee to prepare their own tax return. You'd see real reform real quick.

Ok,

Pass a law that requires every member of the House Ways and Means Committee to prepare their own tax return. You'd see real reform real quick.

Several years ago, I also heard a good quote. Repeal all W-2 withholding. Make everybody write out a check for their tax liability. Then you might see some real squacking over how the government spends our money.

[ED SMITH]

HRB is actually small potatoes in the business world, only a billion or so in annual sales.

HRB had over $4 billion in sales the last two years and a net of $635 million last year.
They are pretty big in the tax world.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=HRB&annual

ED

[Black Bart]

Snag,

Inflaming the masses again, eh? Looks like a popular topic (300 hits).

My two cents: When Armey was in office he swore he was bound and determined to get the flat tax passed before his term expired. He didn't, and I haven't worried about it since. As to the code; well, what's the point of fixin' it? Soon as you do, other, freshly-elected congressfolk will start passing similar amendments to replace those discarded. The code is collecting taxes, so it's working and we're working (can't complain about that). Yes, it's hard to understand. So what? The public needs interpreters and we need jobs.

Say Snag, last year I believe you said that you bought a cheapo W-2/1099 program from, Nashville or Chattanooga I think, for about fifty bucks or so. Is that right? If so, how about posting the phone number and website for me. I swear I just cain't stand another year of Greatland. Much obliged.

[Armando Beaujolais]

Several years ago, I also heard a good quote. Repeal all W-2 withholding. Make everybody write out a check for their tax liability. Then you might see some real squacking over how the government spends our money.

I remember my grandpappy squawking about withholding. He was a farmer (independent/stubborn - go figure) and he was around when they came up with that brilliant idea to take a little at a time so you won't notice it so bad. He thought withholding was a sleazy stunt perpetrated by politicians on citizens. And considering what the tax structure has become and what withholding does to confuse people the term "sleazy stunt" doesn't seem too far off.

Every time a newbie sole proprietor gets stunned when I give the bad news that they owe 50% in taxes when they're not that far above poverty level, I tell them the same thing. (1) when you hear politicians talk about taxing the rich, you'd better grab your wallet and hold on tight, because you're the "rich" one they're talking about, and (2) if everybody had to take in the money and pay it back quarterly, there would be riots in the streets.

That pesky withholding, intentionally misleading people. I can't tell you how many times clients have balked when they saw their W2 wages and said "Oh, there's a mistake. I didn't make nearly that much." The response is that "Yes you did. You just didn't see very much of it."

How many people can tell you what their tax liability was last year compared to how many people can tell you how much they paid in or how much they got in a refund? People don't have a clue how much they pay in taxes, and that's intentional.

[Lion]

Withholding

That's always amazed me, that people don't know how much tax they paid in via withholding. And, that they don't know what their tax liability was but know what their refund/balance due was.

Also, I've always thought everyone should write a check each year for their property taxes instead of having it buried in their mortgage payment, stuck in an escrow account each month.

[Black Bart]

Dear Jon, (ever get one of those letters? I did, and she left me for a guy that could

drop millions off of the tax rolls

a limitation on mortgage interest would be great(it would be a 15% credit with max' set by locality) I do not know about no state tax deduction-ouch I'm in Minnesota

pick more cotton than I could {smart gal-he's loaded now}. Material girls did not begin with Madonna).

A couple of points, Jon.

(1) I don't think anybody should be dropped off the tax rolls unless they're disabled, completely destitute, or have a qualifying, special exclusionary circumstance. I feel that everyone should pay some tax. Even establishing a minimum of no more than five or ten dollars would be acceptable (this idea is more for the public spirit than the public treasury). Then, every citizen could at least feel that he/she is a taxpayer, that they are a person of worth, and that they are making a contribution (however minute) to the welfare of our country. Like Snag's non-taxpaying "taxpayer" who received a full refund of w/h plus EIC & CTC, they would then be entitled to legitimately complain (and maybe even do something about these "unbearable taxes"). I think we're headed down the wrong road by designating people as the "noble poor" and completely excusing them from all civic obligations. It seems to me that it fosters, at best, an inappropriate sense of entitlement and, at worst, an unhealty sense of victimhood.

(2) I can see how the 15% house mortgage interest cap would not bother you folks in Minnesota. I saw a TV program the other day which featured some of your houses. Well, I tell you, I thought we were "bad off" down here in Dogpatch, but y'all have beat the socks off us when it comes to "pore." I never saw such houses. First, of course, they're built on top of frozen water (what do you do in the summer-move it to a raft?). Then, there's the size of 'em. There's not room to cuss a cat in there. And, right off, I was shocked, yes shocked, to see a latrine cut in the ice. Don't you think it's somewhat inappropriate to put it right smack dab in the center of the livin' room? You'd be hard pressed even down here to find an outhouse in use nowadays, but you can be sure that if we did we would have the common decency to at least build it outside (and put a door on it). By the way, I have never seen such appalling lack of hygiene. Did you know that some people actually go fishin' in the latrine?

Sympathetically yours,

BB

[djack1040]

[QUOTE= I think we're headed down the wrong road by designating people as the "noble poor" and completely excusing them from all civic obligations. It seems to me that it fosters, at best, an inappropriate sense of entitlement and, at worst, an unhealty sense of victimhood.[/QUOTE]

Great line! Sadly, I think were are there now.