Voter turn-out

[Bees Knees]

If another poll option did not use the word "required", my vote would have been different. I don't know of any specific "requirement" that a depreciation schedule be turned over, since it is not attached to the return, and it was not a part of the client's original documents.

However, I do believe that if the client paid the person to prepare the return, including a proper calculation of depreciation, then the client has "purchased" such schedule, and it is only common customer courtesy to give clients something they have paid for.

If the client did not pay for the return to be prepared, then it does not belong to the client since it was a creation of the preparer.

[wv112]

I voted yes and made it a tie again.

I attach a copy of the depreciation work schedule with the client's original copy. And show them the copy when they pick up their return and go over all items with them to double check the entries before the return is filed. Most clients don't really understand the work sheet, but they do know if I have missed a new item, or if there is an old item on there that they forgot to tell me about selling, etc.

There have been many times over the years that I have had to work up depreciation from prior years from the past years depreciation forms and no work sheets. This and the client's memory make for hard work. I have never gotten a new client with a work sheet attached to the past years returns. Sometimes the client can get a copy, sometimes not. I have the client request the copy.

I wish it were a requirement that the worksheets had to be attached to all client's copy, but that rule hasn't happened.

I would always give copies of worksheets to prior clients (fee paid or not), but the client has to come pick it up. I can't give it anyone else but the client without his permission, not even to a CPA. That's my rule. I hope it's a good one.

[Black Bart]

Tricky to word these polls just so

Although I dislike giving it out, I think they should have it since they paid for it.

On quite a few occasions I find it difficult to follow what the guy on the street corner did the previous years

So I will vote yes to make it a tie

Look folks -- the whole question in the first place was about whether to give the client or his CPA a copy of the depreciation schedule if he had NOT PAID for the return.

I composed the question as it is and asked Dennis to post it, but I should have mentioned the payment factor for the benefit of latecomers.

There are so many modifying angles to this question that it would be very difficult to list all the possible choices.

[Brian EA]

No payment, No copy

[QUOTE=Black Bart]Look folks -- the whole question in the first place was about whether to give the client or his CPA a copy of the depreciation schedule if he had NOT PAID for the return.

Sorry BB but in my practice they always pay for it. No payment ,No copy

brian

[Black Bart]

No need to be sorry;

[QUOTE=Brian]

Look folks -- the whole question in the first place was about whether to give the client or his CPA a copy of the depreciation schedule if he had NOT PAID for the return.

Sorry BB but in my practice they always pay for it. No payment ,No copy

brian

I feel the same way. But; does C230 require us hand it over even if we don't want to because of non-payment?

[DTS]

Bart

Bart,

I looked through the section this pertains to the other day before I voted and could find nothing that says we have to. If it's there, it's not written clearly enough for me to understand.

Dennis

[Black Bart]

Okay and thanks,

Bart,

I looked through the section this pertains to the other day before I voted and could find nothing that says we have to. If it's there, it's not written clearly enough for me to understand.

Dennis

Looks like it was about a draw on the vote, so I guess we'll all just continue on, follow our own preferences*, and hope for the best.

*AKA: the "feng shui" method of accounting, or...arrange the procedures of your practice into an alignment that speaks to the soul of your inner accountant -- creating harmonious surroundings and positive interactions amidst the yin and yang of the Internal Revenue Service.

[Armando Beaujolais]

[QUOTE=Black Bart]

I feel the same way. But; does C230 require us hand it over even if we don't want to because of non-payment?

I read 230 and it's really vague. It looks like you absolutely have no choice but to turn it over, then the next paragraph says you don't have to. It's worded poorly.

[S T]

Circ 230

Page 19 and 20

§ 10.28 Return of client’s records. (a) In general, a practitioner must, at the request of a client, promptly return any and all records of the client that are necessary for the client to comply with his or her Federal tax obligations. The practitioner may retain copies of the records returned to a client. The existence of a dispute over fees generally does not relieve the practitioner of his or her responsibility under this section.

Nevertheless, if applicable state law allows or permits the retention of a client’s records by a practitioner in the case of a dispute over fees for services rendered, the practitioner need only return those records that must be attached to the taxpayer’s return. The practitioner, however, must provide the client with reasonable access to review and copy any additional records of the client retained by the practitioner under state law that are necessary for the client to comply with his or her Federal tax obligations.
(b) For purposes of this section-- Records of the client include all documents or written or electronic materials provided to the practitioner, or obtained by the practitioner in the course of the practitioner’s representation of the client, that preexisted the retention of the practitioner by the client. The term also includes materials that were prepared by the client or a third party (not including an employee or agent of the practitioner) at any time and provided to the practitioner with respect to the subject matter of the representation. The term also includes any return, claim for refund, schedule, affidavit, appraisal or any other document prepared by the practitioner, or his or her employee or agent, that was presented to the client with respect to a prior representation if such document is necessary for the taxpayer to comply with his or her current Federal tax obligations. The term does not include any return, claim for refund, schedule, affidavit, appraisal or any other document prepared by the practitioner or the practitioner’s firm, employees or agents if the practitioner is withholding such document pending the client’s performance of its contractual obligation to pay fees with respect to such document.

So what is the interpretation??? Under the first paragraph seems like we need to return all documents, like Armando stated, but under the second paragraph we only are regulated to return any "attachments" to the tax return. So now what is an attachment? But then we have to make available other documents that the client can then "duplicate" (copy, etc) If my somewhat "lame" interpretation is correct, it still would not include our "workpapers" only the client papers, client papers prepared by 3rd parties, but not any papers that "I" prepared in my office for my file as backup, such as depreciation writeup (computer generated I don't know), Amortization/Loan Payback Schedules I prepared in my office with my software from Contracts provided by the client, Projections of Tax Situations and so on.

Seems this really should be defined in the Circ 230 so that we know for sure what documents we would need to turn over.

I already know what the Small Claims Court says, return all client documents, not my workpapers, but a copy of any of my printouts if monthly accounting is involved. I withheld on one client for non-payment of fees for $2,000, and the judge slapped my hands, but really slapped the client in the face. So we traded client documents for my fees in the halls of the courthouse. I don't know what IRS would say!

Sandy

[Jiggers]

Changed my office procedures

I will attach to the "TAXPAYER COPY" of the return the depreciation schedule and all related schedules that were generated by my software and were needed to make the various calculations such as AMT, EIC, Child Tax Credit, Etc. even though these were not sent to the IRS via e-file or paper return.

And my fee went up for the special handling of this!

[Unregistered]

*AKA: the "feng shui" method of accounting

I was taught taxes by a lady who, when I'd ask about a gray area, would tell me "Say a Hail Mary and send it in."

It seemed to work.

[Matt Sova]

Do not have to, but....

There is nothing that says you have to turn over any of your workpapers to a client or their succeeding CPA/EA/Tax preparer. However, if the client has paid in full, I turn over everything and anything the successor requests. It is a professional courtesy and when one of their ex-clients come to me they give me the same courtesy.

So, my vote was no because we are NOT required. The only thing we are required to return are the client's papers.

Matt

[Jiggers]

Client Information

There is nothing that says you have to turn over any of your workpapers to a client or their succeeding CPA/EA/Tax preparer. However, if the client has paid in full, I turn over everything and anything the successor requests. It is a professional courtesy and when one of their ex-clients come to me they give me the same courtesy.

So, my vote was no because we are NOT required. The only thing we are required to return are the client's papers.

Matt

Client doesn't pay, nothing goes to his new preparer. I am not reuired to. However, the only thing I am required to give the client, if he doesn't pay, is his original documents that he gave me (W-2's, 1099's, K-1's, cancelled checks, whatever).

[Unregistered]

Page 19 and 20

So what is the interpretation??? Under the first paragraph seems like we need to return all documents, like Armando stated, but under the second paragraph we only are regulated to return any "attachments" to the tax return. So now what is an attachment? But then we have to make available other documents that the client can then "duplicate" (copy, etc) If my somewhat "lame" interpretation is correct, it still would not include our "workpapers" only the client papers, client papers prepared by 3rd parties, but not any papers that "I" prepared in my office for my file as backup, such as depreciation writeup (computer generated I don't know), Amortization/Loan Payback Schedules I prepared in my office with my software from Contracts provided by the client, Projections of Tax Situations and so on.

Seems this really should be defined in the Circ 230 so that we know for sure what documents we would need to turn over.

I already know what the Small Claims Court says, return all client documents, not my workpapers, but a copy of any of my printouts if monthly accounting is involved. I withheld on one client for non-payment of fees for $2,000, and the judge slapped my hands, but really slapped the client in the face. So we traded client documents for my fees in the halls of the courthouse. I don't know what IRS would say!

Sandy

The key word is return. If the client didn't bring it to you in the first place, it can't be returned.

And to the IRS the word attachments means original documents that would be required to be attached to a paper return. And the copies would only be of material the client gave you.