Ethics I

[Bees Knees]

I attended the MN Society of EAs meeting last night on Ethics. Paul Roberts, one of TheTaxBook authors was the speaker, and gave an interesting presentation on Ethics. It was a group discussion on real life ethical problems we face in the industry, based on letters submitted to NAEA from their national membership. The answers are from Circular 230 and NAEA’s Code of Ethics and Rules of Professional Conduct.

I thought it would be fun to discuss one of the questions through a poll to see what everyone would answer.

Here is the full question:

One of my clients is being audited for tax year 2004, and I will represent him at the audit. The audit notice indicates that a copy of the taxpayer’s return for 2003 is being requested along with the other items. There were no carryovers, and there is nothing in the 2003 return necessary to validate the 2004 return. The IRS can get the information themselves. I think the IRS is on a fishing expedition. Do we have to turn over the 2003 return?

[GMark]

I attended the MN Society of EAs meeting last night on Ethics. Paul Roberts, one of TheTaxBook authors was the speaker, and gave an interesting presentation on Ethics. It was a group discussion on real life ethical problems we face in the industry, based on letters submitted to NAEA from their national membership. The answers are from Circular 230 and NAEA’s Code of Ethics and Rules of Professional Conduct.

I thought it would be fun to discuss one of the questions through a poll to see what everyone would answer.

Here is the full question:

One of my clients is being audited for tax year 2004, and I will represent him at the audit. The audit notice indicates that a copy of the taxpayer’s return for 2003 is being requested along with the other items. There were no carryovers, and there is nothing in the 2003 return necessary to validate the 2004 return. The IRS can get the information themselves. I think the IRS is on a fishing expedition. Do we have to turn over the 2003 return?

What's the process to vote?

[Bees Knees]

What's the process to vote?

The poll is at the top of this thread. Click on one of the answers, and then click "vote now."

[Bucky]

Why can't I vote on this poll. At the bottom of poll it states you can not vote on this poll! Also noticed this on other polls?

Bucky

[Unregistered]

Bees

Do I mis-read C230, §10.20? It would seem that a poll should not be necessary?

New York Enrolled Agent

[jainen]

audit goals

Since the IRS already has the prior year return, it really doesn't do any good to emphasize that you don't want them to look at it. I can't figure out why this would be an ethical question, or any question at all. I take a more practical approach to my audit goals.

[veritas]

I think if one told the auditor they didn't need the prior year return the auditor would expand the audit to include it. Or at least they would threaten to. They love to threaten. The last auditor I dealt with gave me the impression his job was to balance the federal budget.

[Bees Knees]

Bees

Do I mis-read C230, §10.20? It would seem that a poll should not be necessary?

New York Enrolled Agent

So far, there does not seem to be a majority opinion on this. There wasn't one last night in a room with 40 EAs. Half think one way, half think another.

And yes, following the rules in Circular 230 do have to do with ethics.

[Bees Knees]

Why can't I vote on this poll. At the bottom of poll it states you can not vote on this poll! Also noticed this on other polls?

Bucky

I don't know why. You have to be registered to vote, and you can only vote once. Any other registered voters having trouble with this?

[sea-tax]

I have had no problem Bees.

I don't see why you wold not give it to them if asked. It seems to me that you can battle it out with the irs over of more important matters.

[DTS]

Poll

I agree with Jainen and Veritas about the past-year return. I believe p/o the auditor at this stage would set a bad tone from the beginning and would not be helpful to the client.

Dennis

PS This poll lacks the humor Bart puts in his! However, it's still a great discussion. Let's do more.

[jainen]

standard tactic

It's a standard tactic in any kind of interrogation to ask unimportant questions that you already know. This helps you evaluate how confrontational or evasive the answers are.

[DTS]

Jainen

I agree with you. If I were the auditor, I would test the waters before or right at the beginning of the audit for this very reason and visa versa. If something is requested at a later date and it's suspect they are now on a fishing expedition, we could take a different tactic.

Dennis

[WhiteOleander]

I voted to turn the 2003 over to the agent. But, I would question the agent as to why the request was being made. As someone else said, this could be a real non-issue that would provoke the agent to be harsher on other things.

Not real sure why this is an ethical question. Perhaps because as an EA we aren't giving the best representation?

[Armando Beaujolais]

I voted to turn the 2003 over to the agent. But, I would question the agent as to why the request was being made. As someone else said, this could be a real non-issue that would provoke the agent to be harsher on other things.

Not real sure why this is an ethical question. Perhaps because as an EA we aren't giving the best representation?

If you're going to turn it over, why would you question the agent about it? I would think if you're going to hand it over, hand it over with a smile. Isn't good will the reason for turning it over in the first place?

How about if the revenue agent is trying to railroad a client?

What about an agent that is trying to disallow a depedency exemption for a single woman who supports her mother who is living with her and has a whopping $3,300 in social security benefits for the year? They drag them downtown to force proof that it cost more than $6,600 support the elderly lady for a year? Then they ask for the prior year return? Sometimes they're not all that nice.

According to Circular 230, you turn it over promptly. It doesn't say anything about "they already have it so you don't have to worry about it."

I chose (b) But I don't like. But them's the rules. If someone has a code or reg citation that conflicts with 230 I'd be really interested to see it.