Amish in PA.

[Bird Legs]

Do the Amish people have Soc. Sec. numbers?
Do they file tax returns and pay income tax?
Just wondering.

[Roland Slugg]

Not categorically exempted

Dear Bird Legs

The Amish are not exempt from the tax laws, as a class, so I'm sure most have a SSN. I would speculate that some (many? most? all?) of them do elect out of social security coverage (by filing F-4361) and, thus, don't have to pay FICA or SE tax.

[Bees Knees]

I found this statement made by Kleinrock’s TaxExpert under the subject of exemption for members of certain religious faiths:

“The provision on an exemption from coverage for religious beliefs was adopted primarily on behalf of the Amish, who opposed the acceptance of benefits of any private or public insurance which makes payments in the event of death or disability, old age, or retirement, or makes payments toward the cost of medical care.”

[sea-tax]

I found this statement made by Kleinrock’s TaxExpert under the subject of exemption for members of certain religious faiths:

“The provision on an exemption from coverage for religious beliefs was adopted primarily on behalf of the Amish, who opposed the acceptance of benefits of any private or public insurance which makes payments in the event of death or disability, old age, or retirement, or makes payments toward the cost of medical care.”

My question is How do you become Amish? I mean I would love not to have to worry about paying into Social Security.

Do they also do this for Catholics or Lutherns?

[veritas]

Lutherans love to exempt themselves. I know cuz I is one.

[sea-tax]

Lutherans love to exempt themselves. I know cuz I is one.

Well shoot we are brothers from a different mother cause I am a Catholic. Did you ever wonder why we just don't end the long standing feud and get back together? I mean didn't that whole reformation thing happen like years ago.

[Unregistered]

Muslims

Do you know that Muslims do not pay interest? At least, according to my text book received at the last tax seminar.

[veritas]

Well shoot we are brothers from a different mother cause I am a Catholic. Did you ever wonder why we just don't end the long standing feud and get back together? I mean didn't that whole reformation thing happen like years ago.

Could you see Martin Luther on this board? He was so passive and gentle in all his remarks. You know those 95 whats-a-ma-thingys nailed to the door.

[Bees Knees]

My question is How do you become Amish?

For starters, you'd have to get rid of that Harley.

[veritas]

I think a black harley would be acceptable.

[MAMalody]

Only as long as the horse power is really horse power:>)

[Black Bart]

Sea-tax: A devout "man of the cloth," are you?

My question is How do you become Amish? I mean I would love not to have to worry about paying into Social Security.

Maybe we could just drive to Pennsylvania and sign up -- shouldn't be too many people in line ahead of us for that spartan life-style. I don't know if you have to be German or not in order to join up (if so, maybe Gabriele would give us a good reference). John of PA might know something about it -- seems like he posted something about them at one time.

Still, I think there's a catch. As I understand it, you have be conscientiously opposed to receiving the benefits as well as paying the tax. Just a guess, but I'm betting you're a tad more of an economic objector (so am I) to the taxpaying, while having no objections of any sort about the receiving benefits part of the deal. Is that a fair statement (as the lawyers like to put it)?

[Unregistered]

As a member of a group (Mennonite) that is exempt from from SE tax perhaps I can explain.

Some Amish and Mennonite groups are eligable for exemption from SE tax by filing form 4029. The form 4029 attests to being concientiuoslyopposed to receiving benifits from SS, health insurance, life insurance etc. Exemption from contributing is allowed on this basis.

These groups have traditionally cared for their own in old age, through disaster, and sickness. This care comes first from family then from the entire chuch group which may be nationwide.

The 4029 exemption has in recent years been extended to 4029 eligiable employees working for exempt employers.

You do not need to be born into one of these groups to be accepted as a member. You only need to be again Christian that is willing to accept the groups application to Biblical principles. Each group (and there are many) has their own "set of rules". For the Amish it is no electricity, no cars, etc. Other groups have to a large extent accepted modern technology

[Bees Knees]

This is not a forum to debate religious beliefs. It is, however, a forum to discuss tax related issues, which includes debating tax policies. Tax professionals who are asked to learn about the various tax laws are often confronted with tax policy that is inconsistently applied to the populous. Any tax law that is not a flat tax is inherently inconsistent.

We give extra tax breaks to taxpayers with kids; to those going to college; to those who contribute to charities; to those who go in debt to purchase a home; to those who earn some income but not too much, etc.

Sometimes practitioners look at the religious community and wonder why that group gets the breaks they do. Why give a minister a housing allowance? Why allow church employees to be treated as sort of employees and sort of self-employed?

And why allow certain groups to be exempt from Social Security tax?

The entire system is designed to favor certain behavior over other behavior. Congress has a long history of giving tax breaks to religion.

Take for example the religious exemption from paying property taxes. As communities struggle to pay the bills, many are looking at the big Church right down town dripping with Gold and wondering why it contributes zero to the community chest. Society has traditionally looked to the Church as a means to promote moral integrity, and so society says the Church is contributing to the community by promoting moral integrity in the community. Yet in these modern times, many religions seem to be lacking in that matter. Religion has turned into a popularity contest. At one time, it condemned pre-marital sex. Now, because pre-marital sex is popular, religion says that is OK. Since when is God a democracy?

Religion also seems to like to get involved in politics. A local minister in the Minneapolis metro area got in trouble for telling his parishioners from the pulpit who to vote for. I guess that puts in jeopardy their religious exemption. Yet that would seem to contradict free speech. The government giving religious exemptions for a religious belief, as long as that religious belief does not involve telling their members who to vote for.

Our system of taxation as it involves religion is full of contradiction, inconsistent treatment, and hypocrisy. Like all other religions, the Amish could find themselves targets of criticism for the preferential treatment they receive in the tax code.

[Unregistered]

Amem

Amen. Thats all I am going to say about that.