FinCen Fiasco

[Snaggletooth]

My LLC (and other entities)customers are going to be furious at the government placing requirements on tax preparers to gouge personal information for BOI owners. I may lose some customers, and will have to choose whether to prepare their entity returns (which is all my profession should entail), or send them packing to another preparer (who is also directed to turn over to the FinCen fiasco).

The legitimate and proper source for this information should be the office of the Secretary of State (every state has one).

The crooks they say they want to catch are not hiding in small LLCs and corporations. They are not filing anything legitimate at all.

Is anyone suspicious that the govt has another agenda in mind?

[JON]

If we are talking about the same subject, I think we are prohibited from helping in the preparing of the information. We are sending out information on what they have to do, but I will avoid the preparation of the information that is up to them.

[Gretel]

Luckily the deadline has been extended to the end of 2024. In addition, a lot of letters have been written to congress to limit the burden on small businesses. I won't do anything before much later in the year and am hopeful that the exception of businesses that have to file this report will be further limited.

[TaxGuyBill]

the government placing requirements on tax preparers to gouge personal information for BOI owners.

Where do you see there is any requirement for tax preparers to have anything to do with it?

I am certainly going to inform my clients about it, but it has nothing to do with tax preparation so we are not 'required' to do anything.

[New York Enrolled Agent]

Luckily the deadline has been extended to the end of 2024. In addition, a lot of letters have been written to congress to limit the burden on small businesses. I won't do anything before much later in the year and am hopeful that the exception of businesses that have to file this report will be further limited.

The extension until the end of 2024 only extends to entities in existence before 1/1/2024. For entities created on or after that date, the entity now has 90 days to provide the information

[Rapid Robert]

"the government placing requirements on tax preparers to gouge personal information for BOI owners."

False. The reporting is not a tax return, there is absolutely no obligation for you to participate on behalf of your clients. In fact, some argue to do so would be practicing law without a license--and don't forget to check with your liability insurance if they cover this type of reporting.

"The crooks they say they want to catch are not hiding in small LLCs and corporations"

How do you know? (I'm sure you won't answer this because in fact you don't know).

"Is anyone suspicious that the govt has another agenda in mind?"

Apparently you are. What do you suspect the "other agenda" is? Or are you just being deliberately vague to further your own agenda?

[kathyc2]

I don't see what the big deal is. Vast majority of small business does not have a Board or a non-owner employee that has "substantial control".

For these companies, a one time report with listing of 25% ownership and a subsequent report if the ownership changes.

As far as "gouging personal information" you need the vast majority of this to prepare K-1's. The additional info would be a passport or driver license number.

As others have pointed out, it is the responsibility of company and not the preparer to file the info. I'm guessing the 2024 returns will have a checkbox asking if report has been filed.

[Uncle Sam]

This filing is e-filed (ONLY) with Department of the Treasury - NOT with IRS. So there would be NO checkbox on the 2024 tax return.
Professional liability carriers have been warning CPAs and EAs to stay clear of preparing this form because it's "practicing law without a license"
So you are advised to inform the client that they need to seek an attorney to prepare this form. In fact, CPA firms are already modifying their engagement letters to spell out the fact
that in order to be in compliance, they will not be providing those services.
What "the big deal is" - is that the government ALREADY HAS THIS INFORMATION from both the IRS required disclosures made on personal as well as business returns as well as
forms filed with the Department of State, State income tax and other government required filings with already required notification of changes.
This is just an overkill for centralizing at yet another level of government information that they have the ability to tap to find what they need.
What "the big deal is", is also that FinCEN actually believes that small business owners are capable of preparing this questionnaire on their own without assistance.
What "the big deal is" is also that the people who they are attempting to reach are probably the least likely to be guilty of crimes they're looking to criminalize for.
This is a big trap for the unwary.

[Snaggletooth]

I'm glad I asked the question. At a recent seminar the instructor acted as if tax preparers were going to do this, and 39 pages of the syllabus was dedicated to outlining exactly what we had to do to comply.

FWIW, I agree with Uncle Sam, that the "big deal" is everything Sam purports. Another big deal is the late filing penalty is $500/day with no ceiling.

My estimation is that these companies will not find anyone willing to file this requirement, called the "Corporate Transparency Act". And if the govt is correct about criminals using entities as "shell" companies, those companies certainly won't file. Also, large corporations and LLCs are not required.

This is a government truly out of touch.

[kathyc2]

I swear some peeps get their jollies finding false and/or incomplete info to get angry about!

[jmcdtax]

See BOI update under TaxBook News dated 12/08/2023 for complete details, LLCs are required to report. You will need a current passcode.

[Gretel]

I don't see what the big deal is. Vast majority of small business does not have a Board or a non-owner employee that has "substantial control".

For these companies, a one time report with listing of 25% ownership and a subsequent report if the ownership changes.

At this point it isn't clear what changes need to be reported in addition to ownership changes. Most certainly address changes and very likely if a BO has to renew the driver's license.

[Uncle Sam]

For the "peeps who get their jollies finding false or incomplete info" - look at

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/118/hr5119/summary

If you contact your Senators to approve this - maybe this fiasco can be delayed a year

[Uncle Sam]

For the "peeps who get their jollies finding false or incomplete info" to get angry about -

Here's an e-mail sent out by a CPA organization on updates to the Corporation Transparency Act

Corporate Transparency Act
FinCen delayed reporting for companies newly formed on or after 1/1/2024 to a due date of 90 days (instead of 30 days) after formation.
As of December 26th the reporting form has not been released, even though filing starts in less than a week. As of December 26 the “unique identifier” page has not been made public even tough filing begins in less than a week.
Neither FinCen nor Congress has done anything to alleviate the reporting requirements or penalties for small businesses that are not aware of and do not file this small business destruction act form.
However, FinCen has been kind enough to provide us with a list of folks with access to the most confidential data in the world. Here is the list released on 12/21/2023:

• Federal Law Enforcement, Security & Intelligence
• State/Tribal Enforcement
• Local law enforcement
• Judges, prosecutors
• Financial institutions and their regulators
• US Treasury officers and employees
• Foreign law enforcement, judges & prosecutors

----------------------------------------------------

So CPAs and EAs can't get involved with assisting clients in filing the online only BOI compliance form because professional liability issues (even though the system hasn't been set up yet and you don't get a hard copy of it to keep) but FinCEN advises us of other parties who business people can "trust" with their most sensitive and confidential information. This notice qualifies for the Joke of the Day.

[Rapid Robert]

"As of December 26th the reporting form has not been released, even though filing starts in less than a week. As of December 26 the “unique identifier” page has not been made public even tough filing begins in less than a week."

There was no reason for it to be released by Dec 26. It is now available. See link below.

You know, on Jan 15th, it will be just 90 days before the 1040 due date of Apr 15. Yet, the IRS will not be accepting tax returns by Jan 15. Why aren't you in a panic or outraged by that?

"access to the most confidential data in the world."

Really? The following is what you consider "the most confidential data in the world"? I think the credit bureaus have all this information, and we all know they leak like a sieve.

name;
date of birth;
address; and
the identifying number and issuer from either a non-expired U.S. driver’s license, a non-expired U.S. passport, or a non-expired identification document issued by a State (including a U.S. territory or possession), local government, or Indian tribe. If none of those documents exist, a non-expired foreign passport can be used. An image of the document must also be submitted.

https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/us-beneficial-ownership-information-registry-now-accepting-reports