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    Long Shot

    OK, tax experts, this is a long shot at saving money for a taxpayer. But it just might work.

    Parents bought house and 5 acres in the beautiful Tennessee countryside in 1967. (If anyone can think of a tax break associated with beautiful countryside, let me know) Parents' basis in the house, including permanent improvements, etc. is $26,000. In 1998, parents are now elderly and deed the house over to DAUGHTER, and retain life estate so they can live there until they die. In 1998, fair market value was $60,000. Don't know whether parents filed gift tax in 1998 or not.

    Father dies in 2003 (probably irrelevant so I'll move on).

    In 2004, DAUGHTER, borrows $52,000 against the property and builds an addition onto the rear of her own house. Mother is unable to care for herself, and daughter builds the addition so she can take care of her mother. For two years, daughter has been paying interest only on the borrowed $52,000.

    In July 2006, Daughter sells house and 5 acres for $100,000. The check is made out to
    Daughter and Mother -- and the title company tells daughter that her mother's name was put on the check because Mother had retained a life estate in the property. Closing costs are some $8,000, netting $92,000 before paying off the mortgage.

    If we cut to the chase, looks like Daughter has a sale for $92,000 and a basis of $26,000, for a $66,000 capital gain. However, $52,000 of this money is tied up in daughter's own residence (meaning this much of the proceeds were PRE-invested, not RE-invested in own residence).

    I would LOVE to hear that the so-called "life estate" allows for a stepped-up basis, either to $60,000 or $100,000 but I think these "lifetime trust" devices are transparent to IRS. I would also LOVE to hear that the investment into taxpayer's residence can lower the gains, but I don't think so. I would LOVE to hear that her mother can report this instead of the daughter because the check was made jointly.

    Whad'dya think? Are we up against the wall with this $66,000 capital gain? Can anyone think of a break somewhere?

    Thanks a bunch, Ron Jordan

    #2
    What? No Response?

    Hey guys, how 'bout a little respect? I posted my question HOURS ago, and no one seems to be interested. Jainen? I know you're out there. I thought at least I would get a post from Jainen telling me how stupid I am...

    Listen up folks....some day this may happen to YOU!!

    ---Kingston Trio, from "The M T A"

    Comment


      #3
      Life Estate.......

      ...... is an incompleted gift for gift tax purposes. Since the daughter took out a mortgage on the life estate property she gained some measure of a completed gift, maybe.

      This is like adding a child's name on a bank account, no gifting has happened. Then the child withdraws some of the money, the amount withdrawn is now a completed gift.

      Generally, any sale of life estate property should revert back to the original owner as the gift was never completed and in order to sell the grantor had to approve the sales. But I believe title ownership plays an important roll here and from a tax point of view the daughter should of transferred title back to the mother prior to the sale in order to have the sale qualify for any exclusion or lower tax bracket issues.

      I don't see any step up in basis as life estate's basis only changes upon the death of the grantor. Going one step futher> Since the father died, the daughter probably is a true 1/2 owner, as that portion should get a stepped up FMV as of his DOD. The mother's portion was still under a life estate (incomplete gift) and retains original basis.

      I don't have all your answers but the above may be something to think about or for others to comment on.
      Last edited by BOB W; 07-23-2006, 05:52 AM.
      This post is for discussion purposes only and should be verified with other sources before actual use.

      Many times I post additional info on the post, Click on "message board" for updated content.

      Comment


        #4
        Rodney Dangertooth / Don't get no respect, eh?

        Gosh, there are a million angles to your situation. You sound like me wrestling with myself and turning it ever' which way but loose to examine every possible issue, defense, and conceivable exit to a no-tax avenue. Maybe you should take the stance of my one-time Chinese restaurant client -- reply to all questions: "No tax" (claimed bad English--I ain't so sure).

        Bob W. kinda said everything I can think of, but I guess if you felt like arguing about it, you could plead that mom was still the owner and could 121 it because the gift wasn't fully completed and "you can't be a little bit pregnant." Of such things, court cases are made.

        I agree with you that the $52K put into daughter's house has no effect. And, even though it was spent to facilitate mom's care, daughter will retain the long-term benefit when mom passes on in the probably not-too-distant future. IRS would likely dismiss this and all the other arguments.

        The Boogeyman's Stance: Here's a quote from a post on the "old board" by one John Vowles (a pretty smart guy) about a somewhat-related case: "There is a legal difference between a mere title holder and a beneficial owner. For tax purposes the beneficial owner is the one subject to the tax. The dilemma between form and substance here is borne out by the questions posed; whose income is it?" An agent would probably go straight for the throat with that opening question.

        Sorry to be so negative. I will undertake further research and attempt to unearth fresh material about the BTC (beautiful Tennessee countryside) Tax Break and report back.

        Best regards, BB.
        Last edited by Black Bart; 07-23-2006, 08:56 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          Buffy

          >>I posted my question HOURS ago, and no one seems to be interested. Jainen? <<

          Come on, Snaggletooth, you put up a long, boring question about equity debt and parents dying, full of bizarre phrases like "transparent to the IRS" and "up against the wall." The fact that the father died you labeled irrelevant, when actually it is the ONLY relevant thing in the whole post. And you titled it Long Shot, so I figured I had a while . It was Saturday night and Netflix had just sent the second season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

          Property gifted with retention of life estate remains in the donor's estate for estate tax purposes, and therefore gets a stepped-up basis in the normal way. The bank can lend the daughter whatever they want; their lien is subject to the life estate. You need to calculate gain or loss separately for the mother and daughter.

          Comment


            #6
            Beats me

            why nobody likes ya.

            Buffy aside; does mom get 121 (how much)? Does daughter get FMV (how much)? Draw picture, please.

            Thanks.

            Comment


              #7
              Draw picture, please

              >>Draw picture, please<<

              You have to value the remainder interest using a reasonable method such as life insurance tables, formal appraisal, or wild guess.
              Attached Files

              Comment


                #8
                Here is my take. "No Tax"

                Mother sold personal residence. All gain is excluded. If daughter retains any of the cash it's a gift.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Sale Proceeds...

                  Half of the gross proceeds belongs to daughter and the other belongs to Mom. The daughter inherited her dads portion of the home and can use DOD Fmv on half of the then value as the daughters cost basis. Mom has to use her original basis divided by 2. But Mom should be able to exclude gain under 121> but will have to file Schedule D because the 1099 was issued due to the daughter being on the Deed.

                  Mom, no taxable gain> Daughter, smaller taxable gain then your first estimate.
                  This post is for discussion purposes only and should be verified with other sources before actual use.

                  Many times I post additional info on the post, Click on "message board" for updated content.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    What did the daughter inherit? The mother has full use of the home for as long as she lives.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Sec. 2036

                      This article might be of some value.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Many Thanks

                        ...to all of you who have responded. It sounds like a matter of when the "gift" is considered complete, and it does not happen when a title transfer is made if the parents retain life estate.

                        Tennessee is a "tenancy-by-the-entirety" state. From everyone's comments, I believe the property (at least for IRS purposes) became 100% the Mother's property upon Father's Death. When sale was made, Mother has a tax-free sale of a residence. When daughter used proceeds to pay off loan and rest of usage, this became a $92K gift from Mother to Daughter, as the gift became complete when daughter used proceeds.

                        Looks like no income tax for anyone, but Mother must file a $92K (less $12K) gift tax return somewhat depleting her unified gift tax credit.

                        Please advise if (after reading this boring account yet one more time) any of you tax experts have heartburn with this... Thanks

                        Comment


                          #13
                          You new name is SnaggleTruth!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            almost all the value

                            >>I believe the property became 100% the Mother's property upon Father's Death<<

                            This thread is getting into unsupported assumptions. Tennessee now allows tenancy-by-the-entirety, by that doesn't mean property bought in 1967 was changed to be held that way.

                            Besides, although it was not a completed gift in terms of estate tax, in terms of legal title neither parent owned anything. A holder of life estate is only a tenant. Do you suppose the buyer plunked down a hundred grand for the right to occupy until the old woman dies? Nope, the daughter had to sign away her remainder interest as well. That interest had a lot of value, probably almost all the value.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I have a headache.



                              I read this link and it would seem there is no Sec 121 exclusion for the mother for sale of her life interest. Also If I read it correctly the remainderman (the daughter) qualifies for the 121 exclusion if she meets the normal tests.

                              Comment

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