EIN for German form of Social Security

[Bonnie]

Client this week brought his mother in law who draws pension type income from Germany similar to our Social Security. He had form the German government had mailed to her. She has social security number and wanted to file tax return because she needs to for health insurance she bought through the Marketplace to reconcile what she paid last year. She has no taxable income so other than the health insurance issue she would not need to file. She had the 1095 with the amounts. Of course the paperwork from Germany has no EIN so return will not E-file. Has anyone else ever dealt with one of these. In over 20 years, I've never seen one before. My client seems to think the IRS has a special number to use to file this income. So thought I'd ask here if anyone has heard of such.

[momona]

I have a client who receives pension income from Japan. I just report it as other income. No special number and have had no problem. I think the IRS is more worried when you under-report; not when you over-report income.

[ATSMAN]

Client this week brought his mother in law who draws pension type income from Germany similar to our Social Security. He had form the German government had mailed to her. She has social security number and wanted to file tax return because she needs to for health insurance she bought through the Marketplace to reconcile what she paid last year. She has no taxable income so other than the health insurance issue she would not need to file. She had the 1095 with the amounts. Of course the paperwork from Germany has no EIN so return will not E-file. Has anyone else ever dealt with one of these. In over 20 years, I've never seen one before. My client seems to think the IRS has a special number to use to file this income. So thought I'd ask here if anyone has heard of such.

Before you do anything, please check the tax treaty between US and Germany. I believe it is somewhere in the irs website.

[BOB W]

I treat my client's England SS equivalent the same as US SS. No ID needed. I report it in the SS tab. Never had a problem, 10yrs or more.

[Gretel]

Dito, with German SS. Follows the same rules as US SS. My clients actually gets SS from both countries.

[FEDUKE404]

SAME as Social Security ? ?

I treat my client's England SS equivalent the same as US SS. No ID needed. I report it in the SS tab. Never had a problem, 10yrs or more.

WHOA. . .are you sure you can do that??

(Treat foreign income as perhaps partially non-taxable to the IRS and likely totally exempt from any state taxation.)

Also, I cringe whenever I see "never had a problem" cited as an apparent justification for continuing to do something. . . . .

Years ago, a friend (dual citizenship) asked about similar income for his mom, who lived most of her life in (West) Germany. While I don't know how things ended up for her, I do recall there was some discussion related to "treaty issues" being a determining factor. ATSMAN has already alluded to that issue.

FE

[FEDUKE404]

Gretel confirms

Dito, with German SS. Follows the same rules as US SS. My clients actually gets SS from both countries.

Guten Morgen, Gretel.

Sounds as if we may now have a definitive answer ? ?

Thanks.

FE

[Burke]

WHOA. . .are you sure you can do that?? (Treat foreign income as perhaps partially non-taxable to the IRS and likely totally exempt from any state taxation.)FE

Yes, you can if the treaty says so. Have done it also. Just need to make sure that it is really a SS equivalent benefit from the foreign government and not a pension from some corporation, for instance.

[momona]

Post about treaty is correct and treatment of England SS is correct because it is an agreement between US and England.

[DonB]

[QUOTE=Burke;178313]Yes, you can if the treaty says so. Have done it also. Just need to make sure that it is really a SS equivalent benefit from the foreign government and not a pension from some corporation, for instance.[/QUOT)

From the Belgium Tax Treaty-- Can you tell me what this means?

Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, payments made by a Contracting State under provisions of the social security or similar legislation of that State to a resident of the other Contracting State or to a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State.

[ATSMAN]

Here is the Tax Treaty

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/germany.pdf

Please refer to article 18 and 19.

[Burke]

From the Belgium Tax Treaty-- Can you tell me what this means?

Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, payments made by a Contracting State under provisions of the social security or similar legislation of that State to a resident of the other Contracting State or to a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State.

I interpret that to mean (in the case of a US citizen or US resident receiving SS benefits from Belgium) that it would only be taxable in Belgium and not here. And that if the SS benefits were received from the US government to a US citizen resident of Belgium, that it would only be taxable here and not Belgium. Is that what you are referring to?

[DonB]

I interpret that to mean (in the case of a US citizen or US resident receiving SS benefits from Belgium) that it would only be taxable in Belgium and not here. And that if the SS benefits were received from the US government to a US citizen resident of Belgium, that it would only be taxable here and not Belgium. Is that what you are referring to?

That is what I am concluding. Thanks for your opinion.