Filing the 8867

[S T]

I do not prepare many EITC returns, on purpose, just a maybe 3 -4 long time clients that I have prepared for many years.

I transferred my software from Tax Works to Drake in 2012, and I can say that Drake on the Form 8867 Due Diligence as a preparer has to go through many steps or you can not electronically file.

As a matter of the due diligence that IRS has placed on us as preparers, I discuss with the client, complete the multiple pages of form 8867, answer all the questions, print and provide the client to review, and have the client also sign off of the forms before I submit.

Once all is done, I can print a "Client Copy" that would be an exact replica of whatever is submitted to IRS for filing, and it does include the Form 8867 and worksheets for EIC.

Question, now is - prior to this year 2015 filing, was the form 8867 required to be submitted with either a paper filed return or an electronic filed return. I do not know that answer as of now, however, I have posted on the Drake Forum.

Snags, if you you look at your view and print, the Form 8867 and worksheets are there to print for your client Set return - which I like as it is "watermarked" "Client Copy"

PM me or go to the Drake Forum to ask additional questions. Everyone on the Drake Forum seems to be extremely helpful.

Sandy

[Jiggers]

Of course. I talked with them earlier today before I ever posted the question.

There are so many capabilities with the Drake printing program I could spend all day with a tutor. I choose not to do so. Neither does my wife who does my printing. The only problem with Drake is that their staff does not believe it is necessary to file 8867 with the tax return, and was intended for the preparer only.

The IRS form specifically says "To be completed by preparer and filed with Form 1040, 1040A, or 1040EZ."

Maybe you need to contact Merry or Adam on this issue. Send them an e-Mail.

The 8867 printed last year. I don't know about this year as I haven't done a return for a client (only 2 or 3 each year) this year.

[ATSMAN]

Did anyone using Drake 15 receive an E-file reject for a taxpayer receiving EITC? If not then Drake must have e-filed all the information that IRS requires for e-file.

I personally print the 8867 based on the answers provided by the taxpayer and have them sign at the bottom of the page. Just an extra precaution though not required by IRS. I am double careful when self employed income is used to qualify for EITC. According to published reports my state is doing 100% audits for state EITC which is a percentage of the Fed. EITC!

[FEDUKE404]

Client copies

I never use the print client copy option. I print a copy of the filed return for my clients so they get exactly what is filed with the IRS.

This comment makes no sense.

The software automatically generates, using default settings, the same tax forms ("exactly what is filed with IRS") except that the forms also have in large letters "Client Copy - Do Not File" on each and every printed page. As a privacy / identify theft deterrent option, it is also possible to mask all SSNs to something like ***-**-*123 on the copies sent to the client. I consider this a STRONG option to use, for a number of reasons.

Rest assured it is likely at some point that a client gets an exact copy (your definition) and then signs it and drops it in the mail after you have already (barring exceptions to same) efiled their tax returns. . . .

FE

[dtlee]

I am a Drake user...

...but hardly a Drake lover and they think I am a pain that won't go away.

That being said, I am looking at their "enhanced" printing option (which is the only place where "set" has a meaning).

They default to including Form 8867 in the following sets:

• Client Set
• Preparer Set
• Federal Filing Set

If you want to remove it from a set, you right click on the name of the form and find "Form Properties" (often under "Setup") where you can tell Drake if you want it to be in a particular set (by using a number larger than zero) and, if you do, how many copies of it you want printed in that set. Bringing up the Form Properties is also a way to include a form in any set that it was not already in.

The client really does not need a copy of this form, but the government sure does if you file it on paper. I think Drake's defaults are fine, but I do not understand this statement:

Roland I am using Drake and there is no way to automatically select 8867 to print. Drake will allow you to go back and print any form as a singleton selection but it is out of the mainstream and out of sequence as well.

There is no way to have it automatically print a 1040 either. If you pick the EF Signature set, it will generally not print there, but it will in the Federal Filing or Client Copy or Preparer Copy (again, not automatically, you have to actually select the "Set" to get it to print).

You can set the 8867 (or the 1040) to print "automatically" within any selected "set" including forcing it to print with estimates or the state return, though I don't know why you would want to.

I am assuming that when you say

Roland I am using Drake and there is no way to automatically select 8867 to print. Drake will allow you to go back and print any form as a singleton selection but it is out of the mainstream and out of sequence as well.

You want to go into printing and have the appropriate sets selected with an "X" next to the 8867 pages...that is not how the software works. If you go into print, and do not select any forms or sets, and click the "Print" button, nothing will print but the form that is displayed on the screen.


If you are using the "Basic" printing view, it is your choice what prints. If you are using the "Enhanced" printing view, it is likewise your choice what goes into a particular set.

The manual used to be garbage but it has gotten better and describes other options for adding/removing forms from a set.

[mastertaxguy]

Drake software

Did anyone using Drake 15 receive an E-file reject for a taxpayer receiving EITC? If not then Drake must have e-filed all the information that IRS requires for e-file.

I personally print the 8867 based on the answers provided by the taxpayer and have them sign at the bottom of the page. Just an extra precaution though not required by IRS. I am double careful when self employed income is used to qualify for EITC. According to published reports my state is doing 100% audits for state EITC which is a percentage of the Fed. EITC!

A bigger problem with Drake Software, in our view, is the refusal of Drake software engineers to allow printing without social security numbers for client copies and such. (We have not had a form 8867 issue as long as we remember to send it with paper filed returns.)

We asked Drake about that; they said last tax season it was not on their list of improvements. We posted an item on this Forum and got good feedback on other software options. This year, one of our offices is using another software provider which allows client copies (and others) of returns to be printed with partial SS# for TP, SP, and dependents. We will see how that office does and probably make a switch next tax season to all three offices.

Too bad no one at Drake reads this forum, in spite of attractive pricing discounts on Tax Materials publications.

[dtlee]

I am really not a Drake fan

A bigger problem with Drake Software, in our view, is the refusal of Drake software engineers to allow printing without social security numbers for client copies and such. (We have not had a form 8867 issue as long as we remember to send it with paper filed returns.)

We asked Drake about that; they said last tax season it was not on their list of improvements. We posted an item on this Forum and got good feedback on other software options. This year, one of our offices is using another software provider which allows client copies (and others) of returns to be printed with partial SS# for TP, SP, and dependents. We will see how that office does and probably make a switch next tax season to all three offices.

Too bad no one at Drake reads this forum, in spite of attractive pricing discounts on Tax Materials publications.

The software has an option (within Setup / Options -- the Calculation & View/Print tab) to "Mask SSN, EFIN, PTIN on Client and Preparer Sets." This option, though it is questionable why you want to mask your PTIN or EFIN (or even the client SSN) on your own copy, does allow "printing without social security numbers for client copies and such."

Admittedly, it was added this year. They probably missed you as a customer.

[mastertaxguy]

Drake Masking Soc. Sec numbers.../EIC form 8867

The software has an option (within Setup / Options -- the Calculation & View/Print tab) to "Mask SSN, EFIN, PTIN on Client and Preparer Sets." This option, though it is questionable why you want to mask your PTIN or EFIN (or even the client SSN) on your own copy, does allow "printing without social security numbers for client copies and such."

Admittedly, it was added this year. They probably missed you as a customer.

Thanks. Two of our staff attended Drake update schools/seminars in December and did not know about this. If it was discussed, and I will ask them to repay the firm for the tuition and expenses!!!!

A quick trial of our Drake software showed it does mask numbers on Client, but by using XXX'S for all soc. sec/TIN numbers. Not what we were hoping for.

We tried on a return that we had to reopen. Drake x'd out the SS #'s on the 1040, and 8867, but gave us what we wanted in the first place: last four SS/TIN numbers on the "account transaction summary" which records direct deposit information. The Drake software DID NOT mask in any way the SS' numbers on the state return (taxpayer or office printed copy).

Enough on this aspect.

As for the 8867, we have NOT HAD A PROBLEM WITH DRAKE SOFTWARE NOT TRANSMITTING THE DATA FOR FORM 8867. We had one issue on that in the last four years and that was a mailed in return, ID theft issue, for which we did not include the 8867 forms. Got a letter from IRS on that with a warning. Both TP and our office copy (we keep complete copy of mailed returns in such cases) had form 8867 (with copy of the client's initials on each page).

[taxea]

This comment makes no sense.

The software automatically generates, using default settings, the same tax forms ("exactly what is filed with IRS") except that the forms also have in large letters "Client Copy - Do Not File" on each and every printed page. As a privacy / identify theft deterrent option, it is also possible to mask all SSNs to something like ***-**-*123 on the copies sent to the client. I consider this a STRONG option to use, for a number of reasons.

Rest assured it is likely at some point that a client gets an exact copy (your definition) and then signs it and drops it in the mail after you have already (barring exceptions to same) efiled their tax returns. . . .

FE

You can print a copy of the filed forms with the watermark. That is what I do and that is what I give my clients. My print options are set up so that when I print a copy of the filed forms it only prints the forms the IRS requires; no worksheets, etc.

[BP.]

what I give my clients. . . when I print a copy of the filed forms it only prints the forms the IRS requires; no worksheets, etc.

It may be useful for client (and potential successor preparers) to have at least asset worksheets for depreciation and basis calculations, and worksheets for any carryover items.

[FEDUKE404]

Copies of filed returns to clients

You can print a copy of the filed forms with the watermark. That is what I do and that is what I give my clients. My print options are set up so that when I print a copy of the filed forms it only prints the forms the IRS requires; no worksheets, etc.

Well, of course. . .

I thought this discussion started about conflicts over what was and what was not part of the "filed with the IRS form" and thus should [MUST?] also be provided to the client.

The Form 8867 is, by definition, part of the "IRS-filed form" so why would it ever have been excluded (accidentally or on purpose) in the first place?

The comment made by BP. is also very important. I frequently attach relevant worksheets to the client's copy, more of a courtesy to the client and for any future tax person who might need to review the tax return.

FE