Sign for health care

[gman]

Anyone having the clients sign documents when they tell you they were covered for the year thru
insurance at work??
What is the preparers due dilligence regarding enforcing health care?

[Gretel]

No, I don't. I would ask for paystub to determine monthly payment and double check amount on W-2. I am not sure but I think employers of any size are now required to report health insurance on W-2. If this fails, or maybe instead, the insurance card should give you the information.

[Koss]

Health Care Questions

This has been the subject of much discussion throughout the professional community, and there is no simple answer.

I agree that a signature from the client is not required. Some tax pros may choose to have the client sign a questionnaire of some sort.

At a bare minimum, I think the tax pro should have some system of documenting what questions were asked of the client. Tax software by itself, in my view, is not sufficient for this.

It is not a bad idea to ask the client for documents to support the claim that they were covered by insurance at work throughout 2014. The problem is that there is no document that will conclusively prove this. Some documents can help support the claim, but nothing is airtight.

Some employers are still exempt from reporting data on Form W-2 (Code DD). Even if this field has a figure, it doesn't tell you whether they had coverage for the entire year, and it doesn't tell you whether the spouse and dependents were covered.

Many clients will have an insurance card--for 2015. I already took a call from one guy who said that he already cut up and threw away his 2014 insurance card. And even if they still have it, you have the same issues: It doesn't prove that they had coverage for the whole year, nor does it prove that the spouse and dependents were covered.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't ask for an insurance card. If you copy or scan it, it helps show that you at least made an effort to verify what the client was telling you.

I recommend a paper worksheet, completed by hand by the tax pro, for every client, to document what questions were asked and how they were answered. A signature from the client is not necessary. What is necessary is a written record of what you asked and what the client said.

BMK

[mastertaxguy]

Aca preparer due diligence

Anyone having the clients sign documents when they tell you they were covered for the year thru
insurance at work??
What is the preparer's due diligence regarding enforcing health care?

1. At the office where I work, we developed a one page, one sheet 'decision tree' for clients to read, check one of the three sections that apply, and sign at the bottom. On a joint return, both sign.
2. We date stamp the decision tree and preparer signs it as well; it is kept with the other things with the 8879.
3. For those with part year coverage, or partial household members, or no coverage but claiming exemption, we "discuss" that with the preparer.
4. For those claiming full year coverage (or partial year coverage) we obtain some type of proof and copy for our file. As others have noted, that proof may be a 1099 SSA with the medicare amount for the entire year, or a W-2 with code DD (which we inquire as to full year or partial year coverage).
5. TTB Health Car Organizer is very good and detailed. However, our testing (as noted previously) with my spouse and a couple of others showed it created more questions than answers. We do keep it at our desks for reference as to what questions to ask.
6. We keep a list of local US Senators and US Representatives for those who want to complain about ACA/Obama Care and don't engage in any discussion on that issue.
7. For us the issue is not so much IRS thoughts on due diligence as it is covering ourselves WHEN issues arise down the road.

[TAX4US]

Without violating some kind of law somewhere could you share that decision tree? Just asking?

[Burke]

I put in my client letter this year the requirement mandated by ACA for health insurance, and I informed them to present a copy of their health insurance cards when submitting their tax documents to me. They should show the persons covered, and the dates of coverage. For persons receiving SS benefits from which Medicare is deducted, it would be shown on their SSA-1099 whether they paid premiums for the entire year, since everyone pays the same premium.

[mastertaxguy]

ACA Decision Tree

Without violating some kind of law somewhere could you share that decision tree? Just asking?

Send me a private e-mail through TTB forum, okay?
I will see what we can do. We applied for a copyright on the form.
But I suspect everyone will want to customize any form for their purpose.

[Koss]

Copyright?

We applied for a copyright on the form.

Applied for a copyright?

You certain have the right claim copyright on any original material that you have authored, and your decision tree is probably original enough to qualify.

But I don't think you have to apply for a copyright. If you are the author, you automatically hold the copyright. Just put a copyright symbol and your name at the bottom.

Of course, in the real world, that doesn't stop people from copying it and using it, especially if it is only one page.

But you also have the right to sell it.

Where did you send your "copyright application"?

To the "Copyright Clearance Center"?

That's not a government agency, and they don't grant copyrights.

CCC is an entity that facilitates requests for permission, and collects payments, for those copyright holders that choose to use CCC as an agent.

If you wrote something original, then you are the copyright owner. Your copyright arises from your authorship. You don't have to apply for a copyright.

You have to apply for a patent, and you have to register a trademark. Patents are granted by the US Patent Office, which is a federal agency, and trademarks are usually issued by a state agency such as the Secretary of State.

Copyrights are not issued or granted. They arise naturally, by operation of law. If you wrote it, you hold the copyright.

CORRECTION: Trademarks are handled by the US Patent & Trademark Office, not by state agencies. I stand by my original comments about copyright.

BMK

[Burke]

Years ago my daughter wrote some music. She then mailed it to herself, stating this validated the copyright. Where she got this information, I do not know, and it sounded ridiculous to me at the time.

[Koss]

Berne Convention (Non-tax Topic)

This is now officially a non-tax discussion.

According to Wikipedia (which is never, ever inaccurate, incomplete, vague, or ambiguous), the US became a party to the Berne Convention in 1989, and "in countries where the Berne Convention standards apply, copyright is automatic, and need not be obtained through official registration with any government office."

There is indeed something called the US Copyright Office, and it is indeed possible to register your work, which would appear to make your claim to copyright a matter of public record. But under the Berne Convention, you hold the copyright to your own original work, regardless of whether you take steps to register it.

Apparently the law was different prior to 1989. Some other international convention was in effect.

BMK

[mactoolsix]

Years ago my daughter wrote some music. She then mailed it to herself, stating this validated the copyright. Where she got this information, I do not know, and it sounded ridiculous to me at the time.

I wonder if email would have worked, or is the "forever" stamp that validated it?
LOL

Mike

[Burke]

Not sure she had email back then. But I talked to her last night, and she said she was told by her music teacher at the time (and later confirmed in her business marketing class) that this action was referred to as a "poor man's copyright," and that it was the postmark date on the envelope (as yet still unopened) that documented the original material existed on that date and therefore could be claimed as hers if something similar came up from another source with a later date.

[Koss]

Not sure she had email back then. But I talked to her last night, and she said she was told by her music teacher at the time (and later confirmed in her business marketing class) that this action was referred to as a "poor man's copyright," and that it was the postmark date on the envelope (as yet still unopened) that documented the original material existed on that date and therefore could be claimed as hers if something similar came up from another source with a later date.

That sort of makes sense, in that it confirms that under modern copyright law in the US, copyright belongs to the author and does not have be registered. Based on your daughter's explanation, the postmark and the sealed envelope help establish that she created the work on or before the postmark date, and this could be valuable if there is a dispute in the future.

But a sealed postmarked envelope does not conclusively prove that she is author of the material inside...

And it is possible to open a sealed envelope and then re-seal it.

I am not saying that the self-mailing is worthless. But it certainly isn't necessary. The author of an original work holds the copyright automatically.

BMK

[Burke]

True. And a timely dated meter tape receipt from the Post Office to Cincinnati OH does not prove that you actually mailed Form 941 to the IRS either; but I have successfully used said receipt to eliminate a penalty for late filing by them.