Form 4852, Help

[jainen]

You can't agree

>>I agree with all the suggestions<<

You can't agree with ALL the suggestions, because some of them said refuse the client but I said charge him a lot of money.

[OldJack]

>>I agree with all the suggestions<<

You can't agree with ALL the suggestions, because some of them said refuse the client but I said charge him a lot of money.

Sorry... I agree with all the suggestions to dump this client. The money will not be worth the risks involved in dealing with this client as it will be the same again next year with this type of client!

[jimmcg]

Absolutely, dump the client! Life is too short to invite headaches; there are plenty of clients out there with higher integrity levels.

[geekgirldany]

Thank you all. I going to write him a letter next week and tell him that I won't be able to do his taxes. I wanted to give him a few days to get back with me about this. He hasn't and most likely will not. So I think its time. Get up all his stuff and send it back to him. First time to "fire" a client.

Thank you again

[geekgirldany]

Just a little update. I got a message from my customer today that the company he works'ed for gave him a 1099 for 2004 but not for 2005. That the "employer" did not deduct taxes. Says he can estimate what he made for 2005. He now has deductions to take off the 1099s. He made it sound like he just got the 1099 for 2004 when he called the guy.... who lives in another country.

I guess the above is possible. But like I said before my gut says don't deal with him. I can't stand it when someone is not truthful with me. I have probably had clients not truthful with me before. But never have one try to have me file a form such as this when I am sure he knew or had the 1099. Don't like it at all!

I'm making copies of everything he brought and mailing his info to him tomorrow certified with return receipt. Black Bart your post helped on writing the letter and how to deal with him.

[Black Bart]

That's a good

I'm making copies of everything he brought

idea -- I meant to mention it to you the other day. If they only brought in an envelope of 1099s, W-2s, and a few primary documents, then, before mailing it back to them, I copy all of it on the theory that, if it gets lost in the mail or they claim that they never got it back after leaving it with me, then new copies can be made and sent to them.

If they have a big box or sackful of junk, I send them a notice saying I'm not doing the taxes and for them to pick up their stuff at my office. I'm not going to copy multiple invoices, checks, receipts, bank statements, various documents, etc. and neither am I going to take a chance on the post office losing a large amount of hard-to-replace papers.

Depending on the client's temperament, there may or may not be a confrontation when they show up. I put their box on the front desk by the door and say "There it is." Some pick it up and walk back out without a word, others throw in a few smart remarks, ask why, or (rarely) even curse you. All you can do there is decide in advance what to say to that particular person and play it by ear. Occasionally they'll leave without hard feelings, but mostly not.

Good luck.

[geekgirldany]

Yeah just in case he says he didn't get or it does gets lost.

After some thinking I am going to call him tomorrow. I am going to explain that I can't finish his tax return because of some things that have come up. Leave it at that. Since I did prepare his taxes for two years I guess I can call and tell him.

[S T]

Similar Situation in 2004 Filing

Had a similar situation in 2004 filing with a referral new client, not being able to substantiate all of the income, and the mortgage interest on the form 1098 forms was more than the income that I could come up with. After 4/1 and it took them almost 10 days to provide the requested info needed to complete their return.

Once I started asking questions, and sorting out all of the mortgage interest ( alot of refi's and prepayment penalties included on the form 1098), and not getting many answers, then discerning from what little bit of information gleaned, that mortgage interest was going to be limited, etc. the client became very nervous.

Once I faxed over the engagement letter, and the efile forms and MY INVOICE for payment, then you know what hit the fan. They refused to sign any documents and stated that they would only pay 50% of my invoice, and and not one penny more. We simply advised them they could pick up their original documents that we had in our possession, as I recall that all took place on about 4/13

My "instinct" told me at the time of the interview that something wasn't right, so I just chalked up the time to be thankfully out of the whole mess and not have to deal with it on audit in about 2 years!

Go with your feelings! If something doesn't seem quite right, it probably isn't right!

Sandy

[geekgirldany]

Thanks Sandy. I've felt this way really since I have been preparing his returns. I guess I have learned more and just know its not worth it.

I just got off the phone with him. He wasn't very happy. I told him in a very polite way that due to some things that had come up I can't finish his taxes. He asked what things. I told him I just could not finished his return and I would return all his paperwork to him certified mail. He said he had all his paperwork from that company he didn't understand the problem. Asked if he did something wrong or what was it. I told him no he just needs to find another preparer. He asked again.... I told him it was personal reasons. He said "well you can tell me if you want... I won't tell". Geez! I said no its personal. He said "well I feel like I am not getting the whole story.". I told him he needs to find another preparer... just leave it as that. That I appreicate his previous business.

I'm getting the envelope ready to mail off . My heart is racing a little bit. First time I have ever done that. I think I stood my ground pretty good. If it was me I don't think I would keep on asking the accountant/preparer why they won't finish the return. Just let it go and take to somewhere else.

Thanks again everyone for posting. Really help me work through this.

[Armando Beaujolais]

Thanks Sandy. I've felt this way really since I have been preparing his returns. I guess I have learned more and just know its not worth it.

I just got off the phone with him. He wasn't very happy. I told him in a very polite way that due to some things that had come up I can't finish his taxes. He asked what things. I told him I just could not finished his return and I would return all his paperwork to him certified mail. He said he had all his paperwork from that company he didn't understand the problem. Asked if he did something wrong or what was it. I told him no he just needs to find another preparer. He asked again.... I told him it was personal reasons. He said "well you can tell me if you want... I won't tell". Geez! I said no its personal. He said "well I feel like I am not getting the whole story.". I told him he needs to find another preparer... just leave it as that. That I appreicate his previous business.

I'm getting the envelope ready to mail off . My heart is racing a little bit. First time I have ever done that. I think I stood my ground pretty good. If it was me I don't think I would keep on asking the accountant/preparer why they won't finish the return. Just let it go and take to somewhere else.

Thanks again everyone for posting. Really help me work through this.

Good for you.

[veritas]

You did the right thing.

[JG EA]

Sign for it

I've started having everyone sign for picking up something unusual. For instance a bookkeeping client picking up all files on a particular asset or the like.
I've found not only are client's memories horrible - so is mine and this helps me to keep track of what has happened.

[geekgirldany]

I sent it certified mail with return signature. I want to make sure he gets it.

[Black Bart]

Yeah, you

I'm getting the envelope ready to mail off . My heart is racing a little bit. First time I have ever done that. I think I stood my ground pretty good. If it was me I don't think I would keep on asking the accountant/preparer why they won't finish the return. Just let it go and take to somewhere else.

did do pretty good and you did stand your ground! That "racing heart" is a pretty good feeling, isn't it? You get a sort of rush from it -- a big relief that you're through with a big liar and you won't have to be defending an impossible position anytime in the future. It's a two-edged sword -- you lose a good fee, but the release from stress is well worth it. You can always make up the shortfall elsewhere.

Your strategy of "no excuse" and "it's personal" is effective and doesn't leave any room for argument, so all's well that ends well. If he had continued to press you and got "ugly" about it, then you'd have been justified in saying his words ("I feel like I am not getting the whole story") right back to him. Of course, if you did say that, it would give him something to argue about and you'd have to explain what you meant.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I like Armando's and the client's reasons for not doing the return. Although mine (caseload/ time/ complexity) can be defended because he doesn't really know any of that, it begs the question of "Why did you take the case in the first place if you didn't have time to do it or it's too hard?" And that question makes sense, because, my excuse is not true.

On the other hand, Armando's reason ("because of questions and concerns I have about your tax information") and the client's reason ("I feel like I am not getting the whole story") are one and the same and they are true. Armando's is suitable for a letter and the client's for a conversation. Again, using these almost guarantees a confrontation, so I guess there's no really perfect way out of the situation.

Amazing, isn't it? Those sharks and their associates practice deception as a way of life so much that they have a kind of built-in "baloney radar"--cutting right through the chaff and straight to the heart of the matter. Even though you were trying to spare his feelings (not telling him flatly that he's a crook), he had no qualms whatever about using what was the core of the whole problem in the first place ("not getting the whole story") as a tool to overcome the obstacle in his path (your refusal to cheat for him).

You did good. You'll still feel good about it years from now.

[Jesse]

Selective

I've started having everyone sign for picking up something unusual. For instance a bookkeeping client picking up all files on a particular asset or the like.
I've found not only are client's memories horrible - so is mine and this helps me to keep track of what has happened.

I think it's more like clients have "selective" memories - they only remember what they want to!