Form 8879

[Burke]

Recent thread on efile rejects mentioned that the preparer EFIN appears on every 8879. Most preparers furnish a copy of this form to the taxpayer. Is it required that we do so?

[taxmandan]

Pub 1345 says: "The ERO must provide a complete copy of the return to the taxpayer. EROs may provide this copy in any media, including electronic, that is acceptable to both the taxpayer and the ERO."

"The ERO must, at the request of the taxpayer, provide the Declaration Control Number (DCN) and the date the IRS accepted the electronic individual income tax return data. The ERO may use Form 9325,...."

I don't think the 8879 must be provided to the taxpayer since it is not part of the return but I include it in the packet for the taxpayer.

[Gretel]

Electronic copy

I do not have a cite but felt always uneasy that the preparer not only needs to furnish a copy of the tax return but that the copy needs to include the electronic portion. I never was confident what that means. For awhile, in addition to give my clients a copy of form 8879, I mailed form 9325 to them. That of course was also in the days when IRS actually would give a date for the refund, right or wrong. I stopped doing the later but still give them form 8879.

[Uncle Sam]

Form 8879

My policy is - whatever form(s) the client signs - they get a copy of it.

[Gene V]

. Most preparers furnish a copy of this form to the taxpayer. Is it required that we do so?

From the instruction Form 8879

• Provide the taxpayer with a copy of the
signed Form 8879 for his or her records upon
request.

I myself, always provide my client with a copy of Form 8879.

[taxxcpa]

From the instruction Form 8879

• Provide the taxpayer with a copy of the
signed Form 8879 for his or her records upon
request.

I myself, always provide my client with a copy of Form 8879.

Only "upon request" seems to apply to both the Form 8879 and the SID.
Since he SID is not shown on either the 8879 or the 9325, I will only
furnish it in the unlikely event someone requests it. But I always provide
the 8879 whether they want it or not.

My software company, Drake, based on an option I selected, sends a Form 9325 indicating IRS acceptance to the client if the client has an e-mail address. If they don't have an e-mail address, I don't mail it to them.

Drake also provides a means of printing a list of all SIDs, so I have set up that report which I will print at the end of tax season just in case someone were to ask me for the SID--which I would give odds of 100 to one they won't.

[BP.]

My policy is - whatever form(s) the client signs - they get a copy of it.

I agree with this, especially considering the language in Part II that the taxpayer is consenting to by signing.

[David1980]

5. After completing items (1) through (4)
above, give the taxpayer Form 8879 for
completion and review. This can be done in
person or by using the U.S. mail, a private
delivery service, fax, email, or an Internet
website.

[Burke]

It seems to be the general practice to provide a copy of this form with the tax return (I have always done this as well) even though from all the info provided, it does not appear to be required. Of course you have to give it to them to review and sign, but that one is returned to the preparer for retention. In light of the difficulties enumerated in the recent thread I referred to regarding identity theft, I am re-thinking that policy. Of course, if it is requested by the taxpayer, then according to the regulations, it will be furnished.

[David1980]

Well, while someone could obtain my EFIN from the 8879 or from the submission ID and file taxes using my EFIN, it's important to note they wouldn't have access to my clients. The issue in the other thread is that the tax software account information was compromised. Which gave them the EFIN, and also gave them all the client information for the preparer.

So, what's the worst that can happen if someone takes my EFIN and starts to use it? Well, transmitters (software companies) are supposed to verify the EFIN with an EFIN acceptance letter or status from the IRS website or something like that. Let's say someone steals my EFIN and forges that document or finds a software that is willing to look the other way and not ask. A bunch of returns get filed under my EFIN. Perhaps identity theft returns. The IRS then turns off the EFIN because it's being used to commit identity theft or fraud.

Worst case scenario, I have to talk to someone at the IRS and obtain a new EFIN. That's not that bad, not to me. If a company asked me to sign something and then didn't give me a copy of what I signed, I'd find that rather sketchy. Whether legal or not.

So, what would happen if someone stole your PTIN and filed returns under it? Is it that different than if they stole your EFIN?

Or, what about your software account information? Since that's what was compromised in the other thread, just how difficult would it be to gain that information? Let's say someone has your EFIN, your PTIN, your phone number, your address, and your name. They also know what software you use. For example, someone posing as a taxpayer who makes note of this and obtains all that information off the return you do for them. If they called your software company with that information and said they had "forgotten" their username or password for the program, or that their computer crashed and they need help getting it reinstalled, or whatever -- would your software company consider that enough information to validate that the identity thief is you and give them all of your information? I wouldn't be surprised. You could even try it on your own as an experiment.

[BP.]

what would happen if someone stole your PTIN and filed returns under it?

Would not be fun, but . . .
At the preparer's log-in on irs.gov it looks like they'll be having a feature that lets a user know how many returns have been filed under their PTIN, which will be helpful in tracking PTIN theft.