Turbo Tax - Another Look

[Black Bart]

Unregistered's reply

Black bart , First I understand your want not to change it is a common problem for most accountants

I resent the fact that you...see my tax prep advice coupled with sound investment and insurance advice as just another ploy to make money. I have provided my clients with many great ideas for saving money often times without collecting a dime. I have spent 3 hours setting up a college savings plan to have a client fund it with 50 bucks a month and i get .37cents.per month

we saw...a lot of our clients...being taken advantage of by "salesman"... why not cut out the middle man.

Sure..we (are) compensated..But we spend alot of time doing things for clients that don't earn me a buck...I have never even charged a dime to write...IRS or some other government agency

you can no longer just do taxes and make a good living. Clients are busy...don't have time to waste going to see 5 different professionals..They want...to go see one and get everything handled with someone they trust.

I will and can do that...Look--to each his own...

Okay, if you've done all that, I owe you an apology and you may consider this to be one.

Again, you have some good points that I'd like to discuss, but first I'd like to take issue with you on the first line of your reply; i.e., "First, I understand your want not to change; it is a common problem for most accountants." Why do you look at it as a "problem?" I'm not looking at your "want" to sell IRAs, etc. as a problem. It's your business philosophy and you're entitled to it, so am I not entitled to mine? Must my view be classified as a "problem?"

Yeah, I took a couple of cheap shots at some of the "easy target" aspects of your statement and I'm sorry about that. Since you're doing all that pro bono work, then you deserve better.

Some of your points are appealing, but I'm undecided. H. D. Vest (a brokerage) called me eight years ago about getting me a broker's license and selling that stuff--I seriously considered it because it's good money and, as you mentioned, some people need IRAs, etc., but won't do it unless they're pushed. I sold a 62 year-old client this morning on the notion of making a local bank IRA contribution--he'll need something to back up his SS. If we could "help" them get something solid, then I've got nothing against that. The thing is, I don't really trust H. D. Vest and those other selling machines (for whom I'd have to be working) to "take care" of my customers. Their attitude appears to be "sell something" and after that, it appears they couldn't care less (at least that's how the brochures sounded to me). Is yours different? If so, would you mind telling us what companies you work for (if it's not disclosing trade secrets or you'd just rather not)?

Regarding your point about "with someone they trust." Do they trust you when they realize you're a commission salesman? God, I've come to the point that I almost despise salesmen. They're anywhere, everywhere; on the phone hawking Cingular, Capital One's in the mail, junk jewelry salespeople are in my office. Ads are on the walls in front of urinals and on the inside of toilet stall doors (talk about a "captive" audience). Even the post office is getting in the act; picking up pointers from the private sector. Lately the window clerk's asking "Need some stamped envelopes?" and I wondered what that was all about until I realized he's "up-selling" (one of your terms), that is, asking me to buy something I don't want. I think I'd feel sheepish and hypocritical when my tax client realizes that I'm just another salesman trying to get in his pocket.

One of your other good points was that people really are busy. It's obvious that time-saved by seeing one person for all things is a plus. I go to Wal-Mart for the same reason I no longer go to the drug store--they have almost everything in the world there that I need.

P. S. Veritas is right about your "name." Ask Bees Knees (the board manager) how to get yourself a "board name" (maybe "Donald Trump"). I don't remember how. Anyway there are so many "Unregistered"s posting that it's hard to tell one from the other. Come on in--you've just got a "different" view; and maybe I am getting old!

Best Regards, BB

[Rocky]

unregistered wrote:

"by definition we are all control freaks, myself included."

My siblings and my children would all agree.

It's so nice to have confirmation that I'm in the right profession!

regards,
Rocky

[Unregistered]

BB
Yes they do realize that I make a certain amount of money by commission sales . However I am up front and honest about that . I go so far as to tell the client what I willl exactly be getting . Most brokers when it come to mutual fund sales do not even get into this . However I make a very good living doing accounting and tax work so therefore I see investments and insurance from a whole different light. I do not need to sell my client something to put food on the table so to speak. I look at their needs and wants and try to recommend something that most closely fits them . if I get paid more or less because of one recommendation over another I find that to be of no concern. In fact I would say that I truely love investing, and yeah some clients do need a kick in the rear. and once you give them that kick they eventually tell you how much you have helped them.

Look change is a necessity of life , we a constantly changing for good or bad. My point is that if you are unwilling to change with the time then fine , this is still America and you are able to do with your business as you see fit. But please don't knock others with pushing ahead.

The reason I have not registered is because it asks for more personal information then I am willing to give out. ( see control freak) I don't mind most of it but the email info I am not willing to give out. Due to mostly the NASD and other regulatory commisions. I am not aloud to provide financial opinions without prior written consent of those agents. If you know of a way of registering without providing that info I am all ears.

[veritas]

I don't understand what you mean "not allowed to provide financial opinions" . I have a security license and am a control freak.

[Unregistered]

I am not able to provide written opinions, recommedations or any other advice without prior written consent from my broker dealer. And on occasion on this website I do that and would not want to have to go through the hassel of getting it approved through compliance. Just so I can say that for example Franklin Templeton funds has a good large cap fund. Or that a sep would work better than a simple in this situation.
Since you have a securities license Veritas then you should understand the process. Yes as an accountant/tax pro I can make some statements but once you become securities or insurance licensed the ball game changes. You must get approval for like everything. Your BD may not request this from you but mine does.

[oceanlovin'ea]

Email address not required

is it? I think the email address is only for TTB to send you information if you want it.

I have never seen any one else's email address show up unless they chose to give it out in a post.

Just like Snag and Black Bart are not their real names (at least I don't think they are) you can make up something to indentify your posts from all the other unregistered posts.

Linda F

[veritas]

That's not their real names? What a disapointment. I won't be able to picture them the same any longer.

[Snaggletooth]

Get a name!

Unregistered, we like your posts and your perspectives. Sometimes I feel like a white knight rescuing customers from insurance companies, banks, realtors, and brokers, and I can identify with your posts. Then like Black Bart, I see greed creeping into the tax business when so-called tax people are more interested in RALs, and financial products who do not really help the customer. Even Lottery Tickets!!! [[ GAG!! ]]

Please do this much. Get a board name, so we know (somewhat) to whom we talk. You can call yourself Puffo or Moneybags or whatever. If you post again as "Unregistered" we won't know you from dozens of other "unregistereds". No one but the webmaster will know your e-mail address, and he probably already does.

Thanks, Snaggletooth

[veritas]

I resisted the idea of becoming securities licensed for many years. This was a big mistake. We as tax professionals would recomend retirement savings in order to help our clients save tax dollars, offer more benefits for their employees and so on. Once we made the recomendation we sent the client off to fend for themselves. The result was Roth Ira's when they didn't qualify. Sep accounts that should have been Simple accounts. Contributions were made for the wrong year's and the wrong amounts. Then the investments were inappropriate for the client. I know you all have seen what I am talking about. So now when a client is at the point where a retirement account is appropriate we can make sure it is done correctly. I would echo unregistered's comment that we don't need the commission and so we are not motivated as someone who works strictly in financial services. My motivation is to provide the best I can for each client. When we recomend a financial product we do everything possible to reduce the cost to our client and fully disclose it.

Let me say in closing this is not for everyone but for some it is a natural outgrowth and should be pursued.

[LawrenceGR]

Do you ever

Do you suggest to your clients NO LOAD funds, there are plenty of them that operate at a fraction of the cost of B shares. I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything but there are other options. If people understand that they can get in to Spiders at .2% vs 1.75% for B shares that's a lot of money over time.

[veritas]

I can't recomend no load funds. If I recomended B shares for retirement funds my broker would be all over me.

[veritas]

I had to think about this some more. Let's say I have a client who would be suited for a simple account. I make the recomendation and the decide to go ahead. What on earth is wrong with me receiving a commission on the investments? The client wants service and I will give them service. Also one thing you forget that some load funds out perform the no load funds even factoring in the expense.

[Black Bart]

Nothing at all.

What on earth is wrong with me receiving a commission on the investments? The client wants service and I will give them service.

Most of have no problem with getting good pay for equally good work. Actually, I felt pretty good this morning about steering that guy into an IRA he needed, even if it wasn't mine. He said he'd been meaning to do it for years, but just never bothered to do it until I "pushed" him into it.

I guess what I worry about re IRAs is this: I'm not Hilliard-Lyons; I'm a one-man band. My company ends when I end (die). After that clients are on their own. How do I know whether or not I've sold them into the hands of hucksters who won't pay off in 2030 or whenever? Are these companies that are recruiting us (accountants) as salesmen as reputable as, say, A. G. Edwards, Hilliard-Lyons, Merrill-Lynch, Edward D. Jones, Raymond James, etc.?

Dear Unregistered--take note: I do RALs. Now you can chew on me for a while. About your e-mail address, I think they already have it (get it when you post to a board), so I don't think you'd be telling them anything they don't already know. Also, as Linda said, e-mails don't show up on the board unless you type it in or instruct it to in the registration process. Too, I've been here over a year and haven't gotten a single piece of spam from them, but if you want to continue on as you have been, just type in a "name" somewhere (subject line/beginning of message/wherever) in the message body and that'll tell us who you are and we can begin sparring.

Won't change with the times, eh? Dratted young whippersnapper!

[geekgirldany]

sign up for a hotmail or yahoo email account and use it.

[Unregistered]

Yeah it's me, I will most likely register, soon.

To lawerence and all those otehrs who use no load funds, like I think VERITAS said alot of time loaded funds will beat no -load.
Two major ideas people must realize with no-load. No-load = no advice, no tax advice and no expertise. Look I don't work for free and neither do my clients nor you. Secondly when your in a no-load you typically rely on Suzzy Oreman, Money magazine or mad mike on cnn to give you advice. Look these people while highly educated and financial gurus are at their heart trying to sell advertising time. They say what is flashy and what people want to hear.

My average client for the last two years has avergaged 10-12% returns after expenses and loads and with a beta of less than 1. I have beaten the indexes and mutual funds are not my only investments.

I have recommended annuities , and other insurance products. For example I had a client most recently that was paying 125 per month for a 20year term policy and I realized that for her age and health this was toooo much. So I got her Hartford term policy for 20years for 64 per month. and convinced her to contribute the difference to her 401k which I don't manage.

Look I realize people think no-load funds are the way to go but only if those funds and the client have a clue , For those clients who don't understand the concepts of investing what would you suggest they do?