Shouldn't 4852 be included with an e-filed return?

[RitaB]

I am able to create the e-file, but the 4852 is NOT among forms on the list of e-filed forms. What do you think? Is ATX missing it? Surely IRS requires the form. It's not listed on the forms to attach to Form 8453.

[David1980]

No, just a non-standard W-2. You need to keep the signed 4852 as the ERO just like you would keep a W-2. IRS Publication 1345 page 28 http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1345.pdf

[Koss]

Form 4852

The form may somehow be incorporated or attached to Form W-2.

In other words, you can't file Form W-2 and Form 4852 for the same employer. By definition, the use of Form 4852 indicates that for the employer in question, either there is no Form W-2 or the Form W-2 is incorrect.

I don't use ATX.

When you look at the return summary, or the list of forms, does it contain a Form W-2 for the employer in question?

If so, that form IS Form 4852...

BMK

[RitaB]

Yes. Yes, it is.

When you look at the return summary, or the list of forms, does it contain a Form W-2 for the employer in question?

If so, that form IS Form 4852...

BMK

Yes, but I am the one that entered that W-2, per ATX instructions on the top of the screen on the 4852. Info does not flow from the 4852. To anyplace.

OK, I'm going for it. Thanks to you both. Also, thank you for not getting off on a rabbit trail, and telling me how and why to use Form 4852. And be sure and charge for it. Because time is money. And money is money.

[Koss]

Curious...

On the Form 4852 screen, does it have a field where identify which Form W-2 is the substitute?

You wrote:

Info does not flow from the 4852. To anyplace.

It may be flowing in the other direction, i.e., the data from Form W-2 is flowing into the Form 4852, but you can't see it, because it's behind the scenes.

Each Form 4852 has to be somehow linked to one, and only one, Form W-2.

BMK

[RitaB]

I'm not seeing it

On the Form 4852 screen, does it have a field where identify which Form W-2 is the substitute?

You wrote:



It may be flowing in the other direction, i.e., the data from Form W-2 is flowing into the Form 4852, but you can't see it, because it's behind the scenes.

Each Form 4852 has to be somehow linked to one, and only one, Form W-2.

BMK

I see no link between the two in either direction. Without the 4852 in the e-filed forms, and without a copy attached to 8453, I don't see how IRS will know I completed 4852.

[taxea]

I see no link between the two in either direction. Without the 4852 in the e-filed forms, and without a copy attached to 8453, I don't see how IRS will know I completed 4852.

I have filed a few of these and never had to attach and send with a 8453. I have my program set to print the filed forms only and make a copy of this set for the client. The 4852 prints. Guess I need to look closer at the program to see how it handles it.

[RitaB]

Well, it kinda

I have filed a few of these and never had to attach and send with a 8453. I have my program set to print the filed forms only and make a copy of this set for the client. The 4852 prints. Guess I need to look closer at the program to see how it handles it.

Sounds like IRS is just concerned about it if we fill out the 4852 with incorrect information. Taxpayer will get the letter on it, and I guess we go from there. If we have accurate info on the 4852, it will be just like the client got the W-2 after all. At least that's what I'm taking away from this.

[BP.]

I don't see how IRS will know I completed 4852.

Just had a look at one I had done. The 4852 completion then triggered creation of a W-2 that indicates non-standard in the checkbox at the very top, and is populated from the 4852 entries. Maybe, among other things, "non-standard" is a signal of a 4852.

[RitaB]

Hmmm

Just had a look at one I had done. The 4852 completion then triggered creation of a W-2 that indicates non-standard in the checkbox at the very top, and is populated from the 4852 entries. Maybe, among other things, "non-standard" is a signal of a 4852.

Do you use ATX? Cause I clicked "check" with just the 4852 (well, he did have two other W-2's), to see if I would be prompted to do something, or if the program would use the 4852 to assign amounts to line 7 and the line for income tax withheld. It didn't. I just noticed the blue instructions over the 4852. Hmmmm.

[David1980]

Different software may automate or not the process of creating a non-standard W-2 based on the 4852. It isn't right or wrong for the software to do it or not, just a feature of the software that exists or not. Actually, one of my more interesting amendments for a return prepared by someone else was due to the software automatically creating a non-standard W-2 based on the 4852 in addition to the one the preparer created, so it had the W-2 entered twice. Easy enough to look at the 1040 and make sure the line 7 amount makes sense.

For what gets sent to the IRS, they only receive a non-standard W-2 in the e-file. So they'd have no way to know that a 4852 was used. Would it make any difference if they did though? Say you create a 4852 and show $10,000 of income when the W-2 is actually for $12,000 for whatever reason. The IRS does its matching finds a $2,000 difference and sends a letter. Would that letter be any different if the IRS knew you had prepared a 4852 vs. not preparing a 4852? All they care about is the income doesn't match what they're expecting, right?

[RitaB]

Yep

Would that letter be any different if the IRS knew you had prepared a 4852 vs. not preparing a 4852? All they care about is the income doesn't match what they're expecting, right?

Yep, I think you're right. But, the form does say "attach to 1040", so I think they wanted to see it at one time. I think all they care about NOW is e-filing.