Requirements when not e filing Federal

[erchess]

A client is per his own wishes not Efiling Federal or State. The Federal Form 8948 is going in with the return. As probably everyone who will read this knows there is also a statement that my software generates that the client signs and I keep for my records. The return is MFJ. Do both taxpayers have to sign this statement? I normally only meet with the Husband but if I have to put them both through this I can give him the statement and they will both sign and mail it back to me. Do we all three have to go through this or is his signature enough?

[Gary2]

Not according to Rev. Proc. 2011-25, which I found referenced in the 8948 instructions.

[FEDUKE404]

Client opt out rules

A client is per his own wishes not Efiling Federal or State. The Federal Form 8948 is going in with the return. As probably everyone who will read this knows there is also a statement that my software generates that the client signs and I keep for my records. The return is MFJ. Do both taxpayers have to sign this statement? I normally only meet with the Husband but if I have to put them both through this I can give him the statement and they will both sign and mail it back to me. Do we all three have to go through this or is his signature enough?

Since I'm still on my first morning coffee, please entertain me:

What valid reasons does a client have for NOT wanting to efile?? Does said client also insist on the use of a rotary phone, enjoys 8-track music, has a slide rule but no calculator, and drives a non-air conditioned automobile? Let me guess: Direct deposit of any refund is also a no-no, and your client loves seeing those little brown window envelopes in his mailbox?? Quite frankly, I feel "important" things are at far greater risk these days when handled by the US Postal Service. Aside from that issue, the client data does not have to be reentered by some IRS clerk and you do have an immediate record of the returns being accepted by the IRS/state. (I guess you should avoid mentioning the conveniences of online bill pay to said client...)

On the more serious side (ref CYA category) be quite certain you have the IRS-required signed "taxpayer choice statement" in your files!

For the upcoming season, I am seriously considering adding a surcharge for any return that is NOT efiled, merely to cover my extra costs for printing, assembling, mailing, etc. IIRC, many folks on this board have already been charging for such. It is a sound business decision.

As gary2 noted, the single signature of either spouse (on a MFJ return) is sufficient.

This link explains it all: http://www.irs.gov/irb/2011-17_IRB/ar09.html . It should be noted that this notice is from April of 2011 and may not apply to the upcoming tax season.

FE

[Gary2]

What valid reasons does a client have for NOT wanting to efile??

Since I've just finished my morning pot of tea, I'll bite.

Obviously they don't need to have a reason, valid or otherwise. But the most justifiable, albeit very rare reason is that they're working for the news media, consumer magazine, etc. and are doing comparison shopping. They'll want to have the paper backup for their story, and don't want to be accused of dealing with you in bad faith.

From a more analytic standpoint, you're trading off issues of reliability and minor convenience against security. Electronic filing requires going through an intermediate service, which technically introduces another point of attack, and thus - again, technically - reduces the security of the information. I'm deliberately avoiding any quantification or qualification of the relative reliability/security tradeoffs (hence my overuse of "technically"), though I'm willing to qualify the convenience factor as minor. I have no data for either the IRS data entry error rate, breaches of USPS mail, or breaches of EROs, intermediate service providers, or other transmitters. I'll just assert that in the absence of hard data, it's not invalid for a person to choose not to e-file for those reasons.

There's also the more philosophical objection. Call it Next Generation Luddism, or what you will, but the overwhelming networkification of the world concerns many people. (May I invent two terms in a single sentence?) It's dividing us into three groups: those who live online (the sort who have anxiety attacks if they turn off their cell phone in a movie theater), those who can't live online but would if they could, and those who feel cut off, because others won't associate with them unless they text and tweet and fb and so on. It's a losing battle, but still a valid reason (in my opinion) for refusing to efile on principle.

On the other hand, maybe I should have waited for the Concerta to kick in.

[appelman]

I'd make them both sign.

Just to impress on them how much nuisance they're causing.

[erchess]

Reason for not Efiling

The couple owes back taxes out the wazoo. When they first came to me several years ago they had me prepare a bunch of years of back taxes. They still have not settled with the IRS or NC. I believe the firm they are working with on settling recommends that they paper file. I normally do not handle only part of someone's tax life but I make exceptions for people who are clients of this firm which offers representation but not preparation.

[FEDUKE404]

Technology folks and "Show me the paper!"

Since I've just finished my morning pot of tea, I'll bite.

Obviously they don't need to have a reason, valid or otherwise. But the most justifiable, albeit very rare reason is that they're working for the news media, consumer magazine, etc. and are doing comparison shopping. They'll want to have the paper backup for their story, and don't want to be accused of dealing with you in bad faith.

Interesting....I've been "shopped" many times, but never for that reason. The usual purpose was to see how the client interview went, preparer knowledge/scruples, adherence to company policy, etc. While the chances of such a comparison shopping event occurring are unlikely, at least in my estimation, I guess such is possible. Of course, that type of scenario is a bit different from Billy Bob and Irma who "just ain't gonna do that efile thang!"

I did enjoy the comments on the technology dependent folks. Rest assured I am not one of those. My cell phone is used to talk, deal with infrequent text messages, and rarely taking photos (comes in great if involved in an auto accident!). Many hours of the day the cell phone is turned off...that is why voice mail was invented! I refuse to get a smart phone, or pay the ridiculous related monthly fees, but I have no angst against those that do so. It never ceases to amaze me to see a couple in a restaurant, each with their nose in a cell phone, wildly punching away and basically oblivious to the presence of the other person.

The couple owes back taxes out the wazoo.... They still have not settled with the IRS or NC. I believe the firm they are working with on settling recommends that they paper file.

Interesting scenario. I would love to hear that firm's explanation as to how anything is changed by paper or electronic filing of an original current year tax return. Things could get messy by expecting/applying refunds, but that same problem would present itself regardless of whether a paper or efiled tax return was in existence.

FE

[Gary2]

I refuse to get a smart phone, or pay the ridiculous related monthly fees

I must concede that I recently acquired a smart phone, not because I was looking for one, but because I was looking for a phone that would allow me to text both one-handed, in portrait mode, and two-handed, in landscape mode, and this one, refurbished, fit the bill.

Not only do I refuse the monthly plans, but I'm also switching from a pay as you go that was a minimum $100/year to one that's technically $40/year minimum (for 360 day years), though I expect my usage to push it up to the $60-$70/year range.

[erchess]

not Efiling

All I know for sure is that the client does not wish to efile. I could be wrong in surmising that the other firm so advises him. I do know that he does not plan to mail his copies until the deadline which will give him more time before he has to finalize a payment arrangement. If I understand him correctly the other firm is working on an OIC based I assume on doubt as to his ability to pay. He may not realize that I could efile on the deadline or he may reason that his way delays his process by more than if I efiled on the deadline.

[Black Bart]

What valid reasons does a client have for NOT wanting to efile?? Does said client also insist on the use of a rotary phone, enjoys 8-track music, has a slide rule but no calculator, and drives a non-air conditioned automobile? Let me guess: Direct deposit of any refund is also a no-no, and your client loves seeing those little brown window envelopes in his mailbox?? Quite frankly, I feel "important" things are at far greater risk these days when handled by the US Postal Service. Aside from that issue, the client data does not have to be reentered by some IRS clerk and you do have an immediate record of the returns being accepted by the IRS/state. (I guess you should avoid mentioning the conveniences of online bill pay to said client...)

Maybe his client just prefers the thrill of living dangerously (who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of postmasters?). But either way, there's that old..."The customer is always right."

[Brilliant]

[QUOTE=FEDUKE404;142668]
For the upcoming season, I am seriously considering adding a surcharge for any return that is NOT efiled, merely to cover my extra costs for printing, assembling, mailing, etc. IIRC, many folks on this board have already been charging for such. It is a sound business decision.


did you lower you rates last season because of the efile system? you saved so much time, no need to print, assembling, maling ETC

[FEDUKE404]

Forest versus the trees issue

For the upcoming season, I am seriously considering adding a surcharge for any return that is NOT efiled, merely to cover my extra costs for printing, assembling, mailing, etc. IIRC, many folks on this board have already been charging for such. It is a sound business decision.


did you lower you rates last season because of the efile system? you saved so much time, no need to print, assembling, maling ETC

Not quite sure I see your point - I've been efiling all client returns (except for those with a "problem") for several seasons now and even with efiling I STILL have to "print, assemble, and mail."

But by not having to print/assemble an additional set of federal/state returns for the client to mail, and (generally) paying the extra postage to get everything to the client, I am saving some overall expense and time. For a Form 1040A I guess the point might be moot....but most of my returns are a bit more complicated than that.

And there is the intangible benefit: I do not have to take my time to call the IRS, send letters/faxes, field client calls ("do you think they got my return yet?"), etc. to see if the IRS/state ever received a client return. And, from the client's perspective, I can tell them upfront a reasonably accurate date as to when to expect their (federal) refund.

FE

[Black Bart]

Give the Duke a break, Brill

For the upcoming season, I am seriously considering adding a surcharge for any return that is NOT efiled, merely to cover my extra costs for printing, assembling, mailing, etc. IIRC, many folks on this board have already been charging for such. It is a sound business decision.

did you lower you rates last season because of the efile system? you saved so much time, no need to print, assembling, maling ETC

After all, very few tasks in the accounting business are "no trouble" -- often we start work thinking something's "light duty" or "better" and quickly find we must revise that view. Depends on your perspective; formerly I charged extra for E-file and considered it to be a royal PIA. Then the Duke and others' pro-EF posts demonstrated that (pick one): it's faster and more efficient (I grudgingly concede it to be so)/ it's all for the greater good (think: the "big picture")/ tracking airborne electrons is easier than stamping envelopes (AKA "black is white").

Anyway, if you drop rates every time IRS drops a mandated apple in your lap, you'll soon have to take up social work and/or a vow of poverty .

[erchess]

I am among those

who charge extra for a paperfiled return that could have been an electronic return. The fee is $25 and the justification is the printer wear and tear the paper the toner and my time. The fee also applies btw to a client who insists on a paper copy of their return for their files. However there is only one $25 extra paper fee per return so this guy who is paperfiling does not have to pay another $25 because he wants a paper copy of the return for his files and he does not have to pay a third $25 because he wanted a paper copy for the other firm. I am seriously thinking of reducing the fee to $10 and applying it to EVERY extra copy. In other words my normal hourly fee would get you efiled (or paperfiled if you could not be efiled for some reason) and a PDF Copy of everything I feel you need or know I legally must give you for your records. Then a paper copy for your records would be $10, copies to mail would be $10 for all the returns you could efile but won't, and if applicable a copy for you to give someone else would be $10.

By the way if a return could be efiled but there would exist a requirement to mail anything in anyway I encourage the client to go on and paperfile. I know how to efile with nothing mailed in and I know how to mail in a whole return. I have so far avoided the necessity of learning how to efile and also do a mailing related to the return. The reason in my case for encouraging efiling is that for reasons I am not sure of I procrastinate every time I need to mail something.

[dodgedipduck]

What valid reasons does a client have for NOT wanting to efile?? FE

The client doesn't want to?

Does said client also insist on the use of a rotary phone, enjoys 8-track music, has a slide rule but no calculator, and drives a non-air conditioned automobile? Let me guess: Direct deposit of any refund is also a no-no, and your client loves seeing those little brown window envelopes in his mailbox?? Quite frankly, I feel "important" things are at far greater risk these days when handled by the US Postal Service. Aside from that issue, the client data does not have to be reentered by some IRS clerk and you do have an immediate record of the returns being accepted by the IRS/state. (I guess you should avoid mentioning the conveniences of online bill pay to said client...)
FE

If your client does not want to efile, you're free to belittle them and browbeat them all you want.