Filing Requirements - Age?

[JohnH]

I think the question needs to offer multiple-choice answers:
a) Yes
b) No
c) Maybe
d) All of the above

In that case, I'm going for "d"

[Gary2]

As far as I know, neither the RTRP exam nor the SEE use true/false questions. So study questions such as this aren't there to help you practice answering such questions correctly, but rather to help learn the associated issues by thinking it through completely, and better yet, discussing it with others. Secondarily, it's to help deal with questions where the "answer they want" and the "answer from over-analysis" are two different things.

So, while I agree that it's poorly worded, I'd also say that it's successful as a study question.

[WhiteOleander]

Was doing a sample quiz and the question was "age is a factor in determining if a taxpayer must file a return only if they are 65 or older?" True or False?

I get very antsy will absolute terms like must and only. It is very rare to have absolutes in the tax code. There's always a "yea but" or "except". So,I'd probably fail that test.

[OtisMozzetti]

Age, marital status, filing status, dependency status, type of income, and susceptability to other taxes are all considerations.

In my mind, some of these (like dependency for nondisabled Qualifying Children or marital status) are related to age (and local law). Age is not the entire reason behind these items, but is a "factor" that is considered in determining whether or not those rules apply. Likewise, age is a "factor" in determining if a taxpayer is subject to the "Kiddie Tax" (along with other rules). This makes me want to answer "False."
...
Age is also a factor in determining if a taxpayer must file a return if they are under 65.

Whether or not a person is a Qualifying Child and therefore ends up a dependent, or whether or not a person is subject to the Kiddie Tax, could easily enough flip on the question of that person's exact age: 23? 24? 25? Whether or not the person is a dependent, or is subject to the Kiddie Tax, could affect whether or not they have to file.

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With the Prometric Exams, the question might never get beyond the experimental question stage, because the score on that question would not be highly correlated with the overall score of the "candidate".

I guess that the best approach is NOT to spend too much time during the exam on an ambiguously worded question, which is likely to be an experimental question anyhow.

Another sad fact is that there is no court of appeal concerning the questions; in fact there is not even any way to record what the questions and answers were. So, if they are accepting a completely wrong answer that many folks mark that way, it might go on forever.

[JohnH]

I understand your point, but I think many tests are poorly designed in this manner. The person wording the questions presents a vague concept in situations where specificity is called for. Then they load the dice by telling you to take into account only the information that's presented. What you wind up with is a trick question - useless for the intended purpose.

To add insult to injury, if we ACTUALLY prepared returns using "only the information that's presented", we leave ourselves exposed to the risk of not using due diligence. So the testing process becomes even more detached from the real world and anything but a true measure of competence.

[Bees Knees]

I disagree it is a trick question, or that it is poorly written. That is the very nature of true and false questions. Is it true that age is only relevant in determining filing requirements if the taxpayer is age 65 or older?

Of course not, as illustrate in several of these posts. It’s the type of question I would design if I were in charge of writing the test.

[JohnH]

I still see it as a trick question. It would only be valid in this context if it were permissible to ask for clarification, which is what we would actually do in the real world. So the question doesn't test real-world competence - it only tests test-taking ability.

[Burke]

I just hope it's not on my test.

[Gary2]

I disagree it is a trick question, or that it is poorly written. That is the very nature of true and false questions. Is it true that age is only relevant in determining filing requirements if the taxpayer is age 65 or older?

Of course not, as illustrate in several of these posts. It’s the type of question I would design if I were in charge of writing the test.

Would your opinion of the question quality change if you learned that the author of the question disagrees with your answer? I'm hoping that at some point, Zeros will chime in with the expected answer (assuming he has access to it).

[okie1tax]

True False Questions on test

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/samplertrpquestions.pdf

[JohnH]

Sometimes when it comes to tests it's all about attitude. Don't know where I first heard this, but there's a huge difference in the mental attitude between "passing the test" and "getting enough answers right to pass the test". They mean the same thing, but the mental concept is so different. Engaging with the second concept can help relax the mind and focus on the real objective.

[Bees Knees]

Would your opinion of the question quality change if you learned that the author of the question disagrees with your answer?

If the author of the question disagrees with my answer, I would say the author is the one who made the mistake.

I understand the fear we have that the author of the test question could answer his/her own question wrong, but that is true for any test question. What if the author makes a mistake in calculating the answer to a math question?

It is a real factor in taking a test vs. the real world where we can ask a client multiple questions to clarify a situation. You have to take a test question at its face value and not try to assume the author meant something other than the way the question is worded.

Here is another example: The age of an IRA beneficiary is only relevant in calculating the amount of a beneficiary’s required minimum distribution if the beneficiary is age 70½ or older. True or false?

Don’t read anything more into the question. Don’t anticipate what you think I meant in asking the question. It is only a trick question if you think I meant something other than what is actually written into the question.

[dtlee]

I hope Zeros does chime in.

Having taken many tests in my life, I tend to consider the level of the author's ability to think when attempting to answer. This question was worded so poorly that the answer must be "false," but I am equally certain that the author expects a "true" answer.

The question itself gives away the lack of understanding by the author. In a well constructed question, the question does not give the answer. There is no way that age could be a factor when determining if a person is at or over 65 but not a factor when determining if that person is under 65. Thus, age must be a factor in both scenarios and the answer should be "false" as Bees indicates.

However, anyone who would create and publish such a poor question would likewise not realize how bad it is and probably believes it clearly states its intended point. I am guessing that the intended point of this author is that age is allowed to be used to determine the standard deduction amount used for determining the filing requirements but not for anything else. As pointed out several times, age is also a factor in determining dependency filing requirements (i.e., if you are able to be claimed as a dependent) and susceptibilty to other taxes.

Another perspective was pointed out to me by a friend of mine who has several degrees in math and probability. He indicates that the whole structure of the question is faulty. Using conditional logic, he claims that once the taxpayer is known to be age 65 or over, age ceases to be a factor. (i.e., If they are 65 or older, you no longer need to consider anything related to their age; only income and filing status matter.) Thus, his answer is that this is false because age ceases to be a factor if the taxpayer is age 65 or older. Age is only a factor to be considered when you have not yet determined whether the taxpayer is age 65 or older or under age 65.

[dtlee]

Whether or not a person is a Qualifying Child and therefore ends up a dependent, or whether or not a person is subject to the Kiddie Tax, could easily enough flip on the question of that person's exact age: 23? 24? 25? Whether or not the person is a dependent, or is subject to the Kiddie Tax, could affect whether or not they have to file.

That was my point. Age is a "factor" but the author does not explain how much of a "factor" they are alluding to. Age is also a factor for determining if a person can be employed in most states. Self-employed individuals must file if they have self-employment net earnings of $400. However, service performed by a newspaper carrier will constitutes a trade or business for purposes of the tax on self-employment income only if the carrier has attained age 18. A person is not subject to the penalty for not taking the Required MInimum Distribution from a retirement plan until after they attain age 70½. A person is required to file if that person is subject to the Alternative Minimum Tax and the exclusion amount is different for taxpayers who are potentially subject to the Kiddie Tax which of course is dependent on age (along with other "factors").

My point was that I do not think that the author of this poorly worded question considers these ages to be "factors" even if I do.

As TAXXCPA pointed out, age is never a factor by itself. There is nothing that states, "Everyone over age 12 must file," or "Everyone over age 100, can stop."

If I were taking the exam, I would see the fact that the question is garbage, guess that the author wants "true" as the answer and just move on. If they throw out the question later, my score won't change unless I guessed wrong and then it will go up.

[okie1tax]

Test questions

Some of the speculations about the validity of this question reinforces my contention that it is better to know how to take the test than it is to know anything about preparing taxes. Too many are arguing all kinds of esoteric issues. The question IS one of the example questions from a prep course for the RTRP exam. You need to know how to read the question AS IT IS ASKED on the exam and what the answer is to THAT question. Any other spin reduces your chance of passing.