Surrogate Signatures

[Snaggletooth]

To what extent do you allow surrogate signatures on an 8453 (or 8879 or whatever)?

I have not yet had a case where someone's [wife, child, brother,] (choose one) was unavailable to sign, but I am expecting someone tomorrow night to bring in some paperwork for their daughter - a college student somewhere out west with absolutely no chance to come to Tennessee and sign an electronic filing declaration.

Can the mother sign, as long as she countersigns underneath her daughter's signature?
(I will not accept a forged signature, obviously)

How tight are some of you with respect to signatures?

[Gretel]

Hi Snag, I would not allow someone else to sign. Mom would need POA. If daughter comes back later in the year she could sign and back date. I would only do this if I know them very well.

But what about faxing the form? Or e-mailing the return and having the 8879 mailed back to you.

[Snaggletooth]

I know this happens...

...to the rest of you. Whaddayado?

Gabriele thanks for your answer. Many times I am able to avoid the problem with a fax and a pre-signed form. However, they're not supposed to sign a blank form either, and if you wait on the mail or a fax, you are delaying the e-file.

For example, I think this girl is in Walla Walla Wa. I will end up spending 100 times as much time securing her signature through a fax or some other device or chasing her down on a cellphone or waiting for her to respond to me by email or doing all of these things.
Not a good thing to be having to spend time on a few days before the deadline.

In these days of cellphones, faxes, etc. it is assumed that EVERYONE is ALWAYS available, ALL of the time. This is just simply not the case, and in my opinion, it would be a sad world if this were true. Big Brother would be just around the corner.

[oceanlovin'ea]

Fax form

That is what I do with clients that live out of the area. I fax the form to them and have them sign it and fax it back to me. Works fine.

College students have access to fax machines. One client faxed to son and he faxed back to me.

Linda F

[Chief]

Fax Machine

Linda, that is exactly the reason I kept broadband phone service so I could use my fax. and also because I have unlimited long distance quite economically.

[veritas]

Of course the student is supposed to review the return before signing the 8879. We email the return (password protected) have them review return, sign 8879 and return by fax or scan and email

[Bill Tubbs]

up to the parents...

If the parents bring me the info, I give them the complete return with the 8879 and tell them to have the kid sign it and mail/fax it back to me. It's their problem, not mine.

There are a couple parents that bring the return home, and after a few days bring it back to me signed -- that kid's signature looks pretty darn similar to one of the 2 parents... I'm guessing the parent signs it, but I have no proof, so I just process it. One couple that I go to their house (one of my initial clients), brings the return upstairs, has their daughter "sign" it up there, and then brings the form back down to me.

I'm not encouraging them (or suggesting to them) that they sign their kids' 8879, but if that's what they're doing, it's their problem.

Bill

[OldJack]

No Problem! I don't even efile returns as I refuse to accept the taxpayer's responsibility to file and why should I have to spend time dealing with the IRS rejecting efile because some little box was not checked or there was a comma where it didn't belong. Life is good.

[Acownt4it]

On the returns I mail or give to parents, I put a brightly (neon pink or blue) colored cover sheet on top of the forms to be signed with a postage paid envelope. The cover sheet very clearly states I will not efile their return without the enclosed forms signed and sent back to me.
Never have to wait, they are always sent back within a day or two.

[Koss]

Signatures

The firm that I work for has several people who do almost nothing but compliance. I haven't done lot of research on this particular topic, but on this point I think my firm's compliance team is getting it right.

Yes, my firm offers "bank products" such as Refund Anticipation Loans, and another program that takes about two weeks just like regular e-filing, but allows our fee to be deducted from the refund. These programs require that the customer explicitly authorize the IRS to send the refund to our bank. But the refund still goes into an account that belongs to the client. And then the fee is deducted, and the loan is paid off, etc., etc. I know it's a bit Rube Goldberg, but the technicalities mean something. The client opens a bank account at our bank that is used exclusively to collect their tax refund. But it's still a bank account.

And opening a bank account drags in all the compliance baggage of...

The USA PATRIOT Act.

When we use these programs, the client has to present two forms of identification. We are acting as agents for the bank, and we are opening a bank account for the client.

But when they pay the fee up front, and just do regular e-filing, there is simply nothing anywhere in the IRS regs that requires any form of ID, and there is nothing that requires that they sign the Form 8453 in front of us.

If the client takes the form down to the tavern four blocks away to have his wife sign it, and then brings it back, we file the return.

If he fraudulently signed his wife's name, that's between him and the IRS. He could do the same thing and file the return by mail.

Burton