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    EIC and Dependent

    Bill Tubbs invited my input on a question that was posted on the ATX board. I am reproducing the thread here.

    Originally posted by SDCPA

    Am I correct? - I think I understand the new "qualifying child" rules, but I want to make sure I know what I'm talking about before I call the taxpayer.

    College student, age 20, lives with parents & has $9100 wage income. Parents have income of $10500 & another younger child at home who has no income.

    If student provides more than half of his own support (which it sure looks like he did, but I will verify that) he can claim his own exemption & education credits, but he is a qualifying child of the parents for them to claim EIC.

    I want to make sure I'm correct, since the parents have usually been eligible for EIC & I certainly don't want to make an error that would cause any question about future eligibility.

    I'm sure this is not unusual for many of you, but it's something I have not seen before.

    Thank you for your help
    Originally posted by Bill Tubbs

    Well, 20yo student would be a QC for EIC for his parents, as support is not an issue at all for EIC purposes. So, that means the 20yo is ineligible from claiming EIC on his return. And since 20yo is ineligible for EIC, then the parents are the only ones that can claim the younger child for EIC. That much seems clear.

    The rest of the answer will hinge on how you interpret the "Qualifying child of more than one person" (1040 Instructions, pg 21, top of right column). Personally, I don't agree with the IRS's interpretation here, and this case is a prime example why. Presuming 20yo provided over half of his support, 20yo is not a qualifying child of his parents for dependency, but he is a QC of his parents for EIC purposes -- so much for the Uniform Definition! The way I read the law itself (not the IRS publications) is that benefits can be split among the eligible parties, as long as no 2 parties claim the same benefit for the same person -- i.e. the person isn't claimed for EIC on 2 returns, or not claimed as dependent on 2 returns.

    That said, I would argue the following scenario as valid:
    20yo claims
    a) his own exemption
    b) his tuition
    c) no EIC -- ineligible since QC (using EIC rules for QC) for parents

    parents would claim
    a) younger child's dependency, CTC (possibly)
    b) both 20yo and younger child for EIC

    If you aren't comfortable with what most consider as an agressive position (splitting of benefits), and if 20yo provides over half his own support, then the parents could only claim EIC based on the younger child (1 kids instead of 2) which would reduce the EIC.

    If 20yo is not self-supporting, then you have 2 options:
    1) have parents claim his dependency exemption and tuition
    2) neither parents nor 20yo claim his dependency exemption, and then 20yo may be able to claim tuition credits
    ** In either case, the parents would have 2 kids for EIC. Run the numbers both ways and see which is better.

    Bill
    I agree with Bill's conclusion, but with different reasoning.

    First: the 20 year old college student cannot possibly claim EIC on his own tax return. He does not qualify for EIC for individuals without a qualifying child because he is under age 25. While I concede that in theory his younger brother could be his qualifying child, that child is also the qualifying child of the parents, and the parents have the superior claim. If we assume that the parents do indeed claim EIC for the younger child, then there is no way the 20 year old can possibly be eligible to claim EIC on his own tax return.

    I am now going to assume, for this discussion, that the 20 year old is in fact providing more than half of his own support. This means that he fails the support test for the parents. For purposes of the dependent exemption, the 20 year old is not their qualifying child. With income of $9100, he fails the gross income test for qualifying relative. Therefore, the parents cannot claim a dependent exemption for their 20 year old child.

    But the support test does not apply to the definition of a qualifying child for EIC. And there is nothing in the IRC or the IRS publications that says that a person has to be your dependent in order to be a qualifying child for EIC. As Bill Tubbs observed, the "uniform definition" notwithstanding, the criteria for EIC are not the same as the criteria for claiming a dependent exemption.

    There is no reason why the parents cannot claim EIC for the 20 year old. And there is no reason why the 20 year old cannot claim his own exemption. There is no conflict here, and this is not an aggressive or controversial position. This interpretation does not involve "splitting benefits."

    Like Bill Tubbs, when it comes to UDC, I believe that the IRS instructions do not accurately reflect the language of the Internal Revenue Code. I also believe that both the IRS instructions and the Code contain serious defects and internal inconsistencies that cannot be resolved except by changing the law. I have authored a number of posts and some privately published web articles, and I have advanced some rather controversial arguments concerning the division of benefits and the issues that arise in nonstatutory families (unmarried-couple-kid-is-hers-but-not-his).

    But my interpretation of the scenario described above does not hinge on my controversial interpretation of UDC. Even if you accept everything in the IRS instructions at face value, allowing the parents to claim EIC for the 20 year old while the 20 year old claims his own exemption does not result in "division of benefits."

    A personal exemption is not a dependent exemption.

    No one can ever claim himself as a dependent or a qualifying child, or a qualifying relative. These terms define a relation that can only exist between two distinct individuals.

    When you claim your own exemption, you are not "claiming yourself" as a qualifying child or qualifying relative. You are not your own dependent. You are independent, which means that you are not a dependent of another person. If you are 27 years old with no children, and you are not a student, and your income is only $4800, you can claim EIC. But you are not your own qualifying child. You are claiming EIC under the code section that allows EIC for individuals who do not have a qualifying child.

    The distinction between a personal exemption and dependent exemption may be rather subtle, but it is not just a word game. These exemptions arise under totally different code sections. They are described in different sections of the IRS instructions, and they appear on different lines of Form 1040.

    According to the IRS, division of benefits is not allowed. But division of benefits occurs when two different taxpayers claim one or more benefits for the same qualifying child. The IRS has taken the position that this is prohibited even if the two taxpayers are claiming two different benefits.

    But the 20 year old in this scenario is not claiming any benefits for any qualifying child. He is merely claiming his own personal exemption, which he is entitled to as long as he does not meet the criteria to be claimed as a dependent by his parents.

    When the parents claim him as a qualifying child for purposes of EIC only, they are claiming the benefit of EIC for their qualifying child. And no other taxpayer is claiming any benefits for that qualifying child. A taxpayer's own personal exemption is not one of the five benefits associated with a qualifying child.

    I'm not going to provide direct citations unless someone asks for them. The distinction between a personal exemption and a dependent exemption is clear when you carefully read the IRS instructions and the code. The different types of exemptions are discussed in different sections, with different headings. There is actually a third type of exemption: the exemption for your spouse. Pub. 17 has a line that says, "Your spouse is never your dependent." The next paragraph, which very few people have ever read, explains that under certain circumstances it is possible for a taxpayer to claim an exemption for her spouse even if the filing status is Married Filing Separately.

    It is certainly true that a person who is claimed as a dependent by another taxpayer cannot claim their own personal exemption. It is also true that a person who is claimed as a dependent by another taxpayer is "treated as having no dependents," and therefore cannot claim any dependent exemptions.

    But a personal exemption is not a dependent exemption. When you claim your own exemption, you are not "claiming yourself as a dependent." An individual cannot be a dependent of himself or herself.

    For the mathematicians among us: Dependency is not a recursive function.

    Burton
    Last edited by Koss; 04-05-2006, 10:56 PM.
    Burton M. Koss
    koss@usakoss.net

    ____________________________________
    The map is not the territory...
    and the instruction book is not the process.

    #2
    Burton and I agree

    When Burton and I agree on this particular subject, it has to count for something. In the original post we are not looking at splitting benefits with more than one person claiming the qualifying child. It is just the way Burton says. The older child claims himself and education credits, and Mom claims the other child and EIC on both kids.

    Comment


      #3
      Udc

      Originally posted by jainen
      When Burton and I agree on this particular subject, it has to count for something.
      Glad to hear Jainen and I agree on this particular issue.

      This scenario probably isn't that unusual, and it highlights what I think is one of the greatest weaknesses, and unintended consequences, of the new rules.

      According to the most widely accepted interpretation of the new rules:

      (i) A dependent cannot have a dependent, and

      (ii) For purposes of EIC, a qualifying child cannot have a qualifying child.

      However,

      (iii) For purposes of the Child Tax Credit, a dependent can have a qualifying child, and

      (iv) a person who is someone else's qualifying child only for purposes of EIC can have a dependent.

      Suppose the 20 year old college student in this scenario has his own nine-month old child. He cannot claim EIC for that child, but he can claim the child as a dependent--even if his parents are supporting the child!

      So...

      In condensed form, a dependent cannot have a dependent, and a qualifying child cannot have a qualifying child, but a qualifying child can have a dependent, and a dependent can have a qualifying child. Yeah, right. And this was supposed to simplify matters?

      UDC: Uniform Delusions of Congress

      Burton
      Last edited by Koss; 04-05-2006, 11:36 PM.
      Burton M. Koss
      koss@usakoss.net

      ____________________________________
      The map is not the territory...
      and the instruction book is not the process.

      Comment


        #4
        Burton.. Wow!

        Did you have some extra time on your hands today, or is this issue just sooo much of a pet peave?!?

        >>The distinction between a personal exemption and dependent exemption may be rather subtle, but it is not just a word game. These exemptions arise under totally different code sections. They are described in different sections of the IRS instructions, and they appear on different lines of Form 1040.<<

        Point taken! Thank you for pointing that out to me. Well, even if I didn't have the same decision path, glad I still ended up with the right answer

        There was another poster with a nearly identical situation earlier today on ATX's board. That poster mentioned this (for whatever it's worth):



        "This link takes you to the Senate Report on the Pride Act, which cleared up some of these qualified child snafus. But apparently this bill was never passed. "


        g'night all,
        Bill

        Comment

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