Forms based software

[erchess]

I almost posted this on the Drake thread but decided that would amount to hijacking that thread. Here is what I would like to find in software and until I do I am sticking with Drake.

Forms Based Data Entry with the option of entering only the data that would print on a paper form plus whatever other data may be legally required for me to keep in all cases or required if I want to efile.

Cost of the full package Federal 1040 and all Entities and all States under $1K or a pay per return available for no more than $300 down and $15 per return. EFiling needs to be free. I also need to be able to get a fully working copy of this year's software for no more than $25 and I will use it for the returns I do the rest of this year. The trial software has to both print and EFILE.

Software has all of the forms Drake has and all of the automatic calculations Drake has and includes a library of all US Income Tax Forms from which to pull anything that isn't in the software.

I'd be willing to give up Drake's answer by the third ring tech support and go back to waiting on hold for up to an hour before being able to leave a message for the CSR who will get back to me within 24-48 hours.

[taxea]

I almost posted this on the Drake thread but decided that would amount to hijacking that thread. Here is what I would like to find in software and until I do I am sticking with Drake.

Forms Based Data Entry with the option of entering only the data that would print on a paper form plus whatever other data may be legally required for me to keep in all cases or required if I want to efile.

Cost of the full package Federal 1040 and all Entities and all States under $1K or a pay per return available for no more than $300 down and $15 per return. EFiling needs to be free. I also need to be able to get a fully working copy of this year's software for no more than $25 and I will use it for the returns I do the rest of this year. The trial software has to both print and EFILE.

Software has all of the forms Drake has and all of the automatic calculations Drake has and includes a library of all US Income Tax Forms from which to pull anything that isn't in the software.

I'd be willing to give up Drake's answer by the third ring tech support and go back to waiting on hold for up to an hour before being able to leave a message for the CSR who will get back to me within 24-48 hours.

Check out ProSeries PPR program. Professional not basic

[FEDUKE404]

Forms entry thoughts

I really don't quite understand your question.

Software to which I have been exposed (including TurboTax and TaxACT) in recent years already has "forms based data entry" if, by that phrase, you mean doing things the "old fashioned way" and entering the data onto the on-screen forms using your own knowledge and not the time-consuming Q&A approach many packages now use as a default method. (Some might even refer to it as the "dummy down approach" .)

I do find it extremely convenient to fall back on Q&A when I am venturing into new/rarely used forms, but other than those situations most of my returns are prepared using what I would call a "forms" option....open the form, fill in the info, next form.... Sometimes, out of necessity, you do get sent to a worksheet (unless you like to override things!) but overall that is more of a positive than a negative, at least to me.

Of course, sometimes it is helpful to have the software whack you over the head when something new appears, such as the "new" information at the top of Sch E this year. (Apparently some TTB forum users were not even aware of that change until it was pointed out by others.)

The main drawback I see to some of the more user-friendly software is the lack of availability of some truly off-the-wall forms. When such occurs, you need to make an end-run which may even include using a "better" service for a pay-to-play return.

As for the availability of forms, a couple of mouse clicks on the IRS/state websites will produce virtually any needed form. (Yeah, I remember the old Package X days also.) I don't really need any tax software to perform that function for me, especially after I set up a couple of bookmarks.

My annual software/efile costs are nowhere near $1k/year. As for getting a "copy" of the software, I have the ability to download all purchased software (well over a decade's worth) at any time and at no cost to me. That comes in handy when adding a new laptop or enduring the death of a trusted computer. Whether you do/do not pay "extra" for efiling is just a matter of viewing overall costs - everyone is different - and it's not much different from all of the those "free" things you get each month from your cell phone provider.

I'm not quite sure you can realistically expect a fully functional copy of any trial software product. The software providers routinely block printing (perhaps with appropriate watermarks?) and efiling. That is why they call it a trial/evaluation product, and normally such freebies are offered post 04/15 to entice folks to buy their product for the upcoming tax season.

Everyone's business situation differs, and if you have a scenario that routinely includes extremely complicated tax situations and/or rarely used forms, then you just need to bite the bullet and pay for such. It's not unlike paying for MSWord and doing well, versus paying through the whatever for WordPerfect and the like just to get those bells & whistles you don't ever use in the first place.

(Apologies if I totally misunderstood your post.)

FE

[Lion]

Haven't used ATX for some time, and their old ZillionForms is no longer free. But, have you evaluated ATX Max or whichever version fits your needs plus their IntelliForms?

[John of PA]

I also have heard ATX can be used as forms based, and I know someone who recently switched from ProSeries to Drake and just went back to ProSeries becasue he missed the forms based. Drake is only forms based data entry for page 1 and 2 of the 1040. I feel once you learn the software, which could take 2 or 3 tax seasons, you would not need the forms based features. FYI you can hijack my threads anytime, no problem.

[JohnH]

ATX is forms based - very intuitive. It's also a great bargain since it offers such a wide variety of forms.

[John of PA]

CS Lewis, good stuff.

[JohnH]

Yes, he was a clear thinker and always enjoyable to read.

[erchess]

Jaw Dropping Prices

The savings with Drake over the options so far discussed are jaw dropping to me. Unless someone can suggest a forms based program for what Drake charges I'm going to have to renew with Drake.

Feduke you might demo your choice of Drake or Lacerte if you have never looked at spreadsheet based software before. Drake at least has no module to assist in interviewing the client although I have seen and used software that had such. In both Drake and Lacerte the initial entry of every bit of information is on a screen that resembles an accountant's workpaper and bears no resemblance to a tax form.

[Burke]

Cost of the full package Federal 1040 and all Entities and all States under $1K....... EFiling needs to be free. Software has all of the forms Drake has and all of the automatic calculations Drake has and includes a library of all US Income Tax Forms from which to pull anything that isn't in the software.

I'd be willing to give up Drake's answer by the third ring tech support and go back to waiting on hold for up to an hour before being able to leave a message for the CSR who will get back to me within 24-48 hours.

Seems like ATXMax fits this bill. Has all forms & all 50 states, territories, incl city tax forms, etc for approx $1K. Includes efile. Always used email for tech support, got answers by return email, but had no problems involving software failures which would have been urgent.

[Snaggletooth]

Forms Based Drake

I made a trip to Drake headquarters last September, specifically to recommend a forms-based product. I was there all day long, and found someone willing to listen. Only their 1040 (page 1 & 2) is forms-based.

I told them if they had a forms-based product available, it would save them up to 35% of customer support telephone calls.

Talked to two management people who did listen. They either listened seriously, or were polite enough to listen to me all day.

Don't know whether they heeded the advice or not. We know they did not at least for 2011.

[erchess]

ATX Max

is listed on the web at $1249. I could get the full version of Drake for under $1K through the end of May but I prefer the PPR of Drake which is $300 down with 15 returns included and $15 per return after that. I don't recall the terms of ATX's PPR but it is more down and more per return.

TY for the suggestion though. I may move to ATX at some point but not this year.

I agree with Snags that Drake could save itself a lot of customer service calls by offering a Forms Based Option. Oh well.

[Lion]

My mother talked about being penny wise but pound foolish. Next to your knowledge, your software is your most valuable tool. If you have priority forms or requirements that could be met by spending a bit more, why not spend a bit more? If you could complete a few more returns in the same time or more accurate returns in less time, you'll make enough to pay a bit more while getting more peace of mind and sleep, too!

[S T]

I am not ready to change softwares, and I pay a "premium" for what I have, but based on feedback, if I were to change - I would consider Drake for the pricing - I have not tested their software in over 5 years.

Years ago when I tested ATX and a Lacerte User, was not an option for me with what I had/have with business clients, and some estates and trusts. I am guessing ATX does a good job on 1040 returns. No comment one way or the other on Biz Returns.

I - though do like "forms based" software. I am a forms person, so it assists me to find reporting errors and how all flows through.

Lion is also correct, "pennywise and pound foolish" I opt for what my comfort zone is in the final product along with my knowledge and the support the Software Company provides - so "cheapest" software is not always best. but then I also have some more complicated returns to process that I really do need that "peace of mind" with.

We all have to assess what our client/practice needs are and also what our knowledge base is to prepare returns.

Good Luck,

Sandy

[Burke]

is listed on the web at $1249. I could get the full version of Drake for under $1K through the end of May but I prefer the PPR of Drake which is $300 down with 15 returns included and $15 per return after that. I don't recall the terms of ATX's PPR but it is more down and more per return..

I've never paid that much. They offer discounts. Not sure what the ATX PPR is, but if I were to use this rate option, the software would cost me about $3K. So it makes a difference in the volume in your practice. Since I also do estates/trusts & bus entities, it's a good value for me. I've always used forms-based software, not sure how I would handle other methods. Don't really want to, I don't think.