Advertising on a vehicle

[LCP]

Proprietor has a business that advertises regularly..... there is no question re the value of his advertising.

He uses his personal vehicle a few thousand miles a year for the business and the business mileage is deducted. He has the business logo and phone number prominently displayed on the vehicle. Other than the cost of putting it on the vehicle is he able to claim a deduction for the advertising he is doing while driving around town on personal matters?

[Jiggers]

Proprietor has a business that advertises regularly..... there is no question re the value of his advertising.

He uses his personal vehicle a few thousand miles a year for the business and the business mileage is deducted. He has the business logo and phone number prominently displayed on the vehicle. Other than the cost of putting it on the vehicle is he able to claim a deduction for the advertising he is doing while driving around town on personal matters?

Per the TaxBook: Page 10-5 - NO!

"Putting display material on a vehicle that advertises the taxpayer's business does not change the use of the vehicle from personal to business. Business use is determined by the trip."

[oceanlovin'ea]

Very old rule

That is a very old rule. I think maybe when I started doing taxes in the 80's, it might have been allowed. But not in a very long time.

The cost of the materials is advertising. The only mileage he gets is his actual business miles.

I'd like to put some signs on my car and call all my driving around advertising, but no can do.

Linda, EA

[FEDUKE404]

No signs mileage

That is a very old rule. I think maybe when I started doing taxes in the 80's, it might have been allowed. But not in a very long time.

The cost of the materials is advertising. The only mileage he gets is his actual business miles.

I'd like to put some signs on my car and call all my driving around advertising, but no can do.

Linda, EA

It was also known as the "Amway" or "Mary Kay" rule, i.e. viewing everything under the sun as (somehow) a deductible expense.

FE

[LCP]

Per the TaxBook: Page 10-5 - NO!

"Putting display material on a vehicle that advertises the taxpayer's business does not change the use of the vehicle from personal to business. Business use is determined by the trip."

I didn't think it would ...... just trying to get a little creative re a legitimate moving billboad.

How about driving it in a parade...... and driving it to the parade location?

[Nashville]

Misleading reply

Per the TaxBook: Page 10-5 - NO! "Putting display material on a vehicle that advertises the taxpayer's business does not change the use of the vehicle from personal to business. Business use is determined by the trip."

Jiggers, you are usually right, and your statement above is correct as well. But I believe the original post states that the client is using the mileage method and if that is true he is not trying to claim the entire vehicle 100% deductible. I believe he can deduct the entire cost of advertising itself, such as the logo, installation, ice cream bells or whatever else he wants to put on the car, so long as he doesn't attempt to claim any more than the business mileage itself as an automotive deduction.

100% deductibility is also a possibility, if the vehicle can be altered in such a way that the possibility of personal use is virtually eliminated for all practical purposes. One example would be my brother-in-law's work van, where the passenger section is separated by expanded metal and shelving and racks in the back contain nothing but tools and no room for anything else. It also helps that his family has three other passenger vehicles, and his van only gets 8 mpg. Not much of a chance for personal use, not even to go fishing.

[Possi]

Switch gears a moment...

I know commuting miles are commuting miles, BUT...

My son is a K9 officer and takes his K9 back and forth to work. You might think I am reaching here, but hear me out.

The K9 (dog) is considered CITY PROPERTY for ALL intents and purposes including insurance and CITY legal liabilities. The officers do not own the K9's until they (the dogs) retire, and I'm not so sure they aren't still a city liability. They are transporting these dogs in their PERSONAL vehicles FOR THE CITY. Many cities supply vehicles, but this city does not. These officers do not take city vehicles home, nor do they take city vehicles to their "extra" or "security" gigs.

So, why are these commuting miles not deductible? FYI, I do NOT take commuting miles for them. I'm just playing the Devil's advocate and hoping someone will chime in.

[FEDUKE404]

Still seems like commuting

I know commuting miles are commuting miles, BUT...

My son is a K9 officer and takes his K9 back and forth to work. You might think I am reaching here, but hear me out.

The K9 (dog) is considered CITY PROPERTY for ALL intents and purposes including insurance and CITY legal liabilities. The officers do not own the K9's until they (the dogs) retire, and I'm not so sure they aren't still a city liability. They are transporting these dogs in their PERSONAL vehicles FOR THE CITY. Many cities supply vehicles, but this city does not. These officers do not take city vehicles home, nor do they take city vehicles to their "extra" or "security" gigs.

So, why are these commuting miles not deductible? FYI, I do NOT take commuting miles for them. I'm just playing the Devil's advocate and hoping someone will chime in.

Your point is well taken.

From the opposite approach: What ADDITIONAL costs are incurred, by driving the dog to/from work, that would not already exist if there were no dog present? If the answer is "none" then a reasonable person would treat the daily costs as mere commuting.

The fact that the dog is "city property" is of little consequence. I assume your son also has to safely/securely transport his firearms/laptop/webgear/etc to and from work each day. There is little difference. Compare the age-old trick where a mechanic keeps some tools in the trunk of his car and envisions deductible business miles for "transporting" them.

There may be one out, from your explanation. One would think the city would provide transportation (marked cars) to crime scenes et al, but if your son has to drive HIS car, with dog, to those events then there certainly is some business mileage lurking there.

Just curious: Aside from any vehicle considerations, what does the city pay your son for upkeep (food/vet/etc) for "their" dog?

FE

[Possi]

Costs

The extra costs for transporting the dog is in damage to his car. He used to drive his truck, and the dog was in a cage in the back of the truck. Now, he has a new vehicle because the dog has to be in a covered vehicle. His new car is dog-trashed. IMO anyway. A lot of the guys have an older vehicle to transport their dogs in, but still, the damage is done. And more importantly, it's city property~ thus, the discussion.

Transporting his personal weapons is on him. I'm not even considering that. Let's focus on the K9 topic. City property, city liability, his personal vehicle, no $$ given, no car given. (Once they get to work, it's city vehicles for working regular job. Not a commuting topic.)

The department gives them crappy food for the dogs, and absolutely NO free money, or stiepens for extra expenses. None. If they buy good dog food for their dogs, and most do, it is out of their own pockets.

[FEDUKE404]

Two separate issues

The extra costs for transporting the dog is in damage to his car. .... Let's focus on the K9 topic. City property, city liability, his personal vehicle, no $$ given, no car given. (Once they get to work, it's city vehicles for working regular job. Not a commuting topic.) .......

If you want to focus entirely on the K9 topic, then fine. A reasonable person could see some issues there that certainly need to be resolved between employer/employee, so as to reimburse the employee for any extra costs/damages incurred. Perhaps reimbursement for a monthly professional "detail" of the car? Perhaps some Form 1099-MISC funds? Perhaps even some stipends??

But with said narrowed focus, the daily drive to/from work remains firmly in the commuting realm. Nothing has changed there. Unless I completely misread your original post, it appears you are considering some kind of x¢/mile deduction merely for the daily commute. I just don't see how that could be justified with the facts given.

FE

[JohnH]

I'll be devil's advocate for the dog - I think he needs to take a bite out of a couple of city bureaucrats in retribution for the way they treat their officers and their dogs.

As much as I'd like to say your son has some deductible mileage expense here for the use of the car and/or damage to the inside, I don't see how it can be justified.

[Possi]

Thanks for tossing it around...

... with me.

I have always wondered about that. I don't want to miss any deductions that I can legally take, but also won't take deductions that are not legal. I do too many police returns to walk in the dark.

I value your professional discussion on this~

[Possi]

Terrible

I'll be devil's advocate for the dog - I think he needs to take a bite out of a couple of city bureaucrats in retribution for the way they treat their officers and their dogs.

As much as I'd like to say your son has some deductible expense here for the use of the car and/or damage to the inside, I don't see how it can be justified.

The city's treatment of their officers is horrible. Truly. But maybe God is using that to form a brotherhood like none other. It's a great group of men with high integrity.. the ones who shadow MY door, anyway.

Yes, take that and add to it poor quality guns and protective armor and you have it all.

[JohnH]

Yes, next time a citizen needs an officer, maybe they'd feel safer calling a bureaucrat (who's probably sitting in a nice office with a mahogany desk, egronomic chair, and the latest computer technology to make them more productive at pinching pennies).

[Possi]

Yes

If they only knew. City to city, the treatment is so different. I see the sacrifices personally, so I am a huge cheerleader for the police. I am an associate member of the VWD (Virginia Work Dog) association, but I know I could do better by volunteering. Still, it's my son, and he can't have Mommy hanging around!

So, I'll keep doing what I do... honest tax returns at a discounted price, for them.