Qualifying child with SS Survivor benefits

[gmack]

Just wondering how much detail other tax preparers get into when determining if a child (who is receiving SS benefits from a deceased parent) qualifies as a dependent. Sometimes it's a "no brainer" but often it needs some analysis work. Do you just explain how it works and ask the taxpayer if they can claim the exemption? Or do you have them bring in their "shoe box" so you can do the analysis for them? Somewhere in between? Or do you let them decide which approach, knowing they need to pay you for the time.

Thanks

[Outlookgal]

If child receives social security benefits and uses them toward their support. These benefits are cdonsidered as provided by the child. Therefore you would have to make sure child is not over 50% of his own support. Do support statement.

[Lion]

If it's not really obvious (and I'm in a high income, high expense area, so it's often obvious) I pull out a support worksheet and ask the parent to give me some round number guesstimates. If that makes it really obvious, I stop. If it's still ambiguous, I give the parent a blank worksheet filled in with any items we know for sure and explain the items she needs to look up for me to reach a conclusion. If I were at that point today, I'd be putting her on extension unless she called back with all the missing numbers today.

[ljwalters]

I do the support work sheet.

That being said, I think this is one real problem area in the tax system. The SS support is the equivalent of child support ( stops at age 18). Child support if paid by one parent is not used to determin dependency. So Why Should Social Security? Bad rule IMHO.

[Burke]

I do the support work sheet.

.

Are these support sheets in your software? Attached to what form?

[gmack]

If it's not really obvious (and I'm in a high income, high expense area, so it's often obvious) I pull out a support worksheet and ask the parent to give me some round number guesstimates. If that makes it really obvious, I stop. If it's still ambiguous, I give the parent a blank worksheet filled in with any items we know for sure and explain the items she needs to look up for me to reach a conclusion. If I were at that point today, I'd be putting her on extension unless she called back with all the missing numbers today.

Sounds like a reasonable approach. I have to trust that they are giving me good numbers but at times I'm skeptical. Some people will just flat out tell me that they provided more than 50%.

[gmack]

I do the support work sheet.

That being said, I think this is one real problem area in the tax system. The SS support is the equivalent of child support ( stops at age 18). Child support if paid by one parent is not used to determin dependency. So Why Should Social Security? Bad rule IMHO.

Child support does play a role when determining support. But there are other factors to consider. Not the least of which is the release form.

[Lion]

That's why you pull out the worksheet and ask for one number at a time.

[ddoshan]

I had a situation 4-5 years ago where the parents made around 38 to 40K. There were also 3 children all of whom received around 9K in SS due to the death of their natural father. All of the SS was used for the childrens support. I explained how things worked and we did a rough support schedule and there was no way the parents could come even close to show the children did not provide over half of their own support. They were quite upset when I advised them that they could not claim the children as dependents. Needless to say I never seen them again and suspect that in future years they did claim the kids.

But when you think about it what would they rather have. The dependency exemption or 27K in SS benefits they could use for the children. I was a little put off by there attitude that they were getting the shaft in not being able to claim the kids. Come to think of it, I am suprised they did not leave because, as I recall, they did indicate that they had always been able to claim in the past.

[gmack]

I had a situation 4-5 years ago where the parents made around 38 to 40K. There were also 3 children all of whom received around 9K in SS due to the death of their natural father. All of the SS was used for the childrens support. I explained how things worked and we did a rough support schedule and there was no way the parents could come even close to show the children did not provide over half of their own support. They were quite upset when I advised them that they could not claim the children as dependents. Needless to say I never seen them again and suspect that in future years they did claim the kids.

But when you think about it what would they rather have. The dependency exemption or 27K in SS benefits they could use for the children. I was a little put off by there attitude that they were getting the shaft in not being able to claim the kids. Come to think of it, I am suprised they did not leave because, as I recall, they did indicate that they had always been able to claim in the past.

People have a hard time accepting the notion that they can't take an exemption for their minor children. It doesn't matter that they have collected tens of thousands in SS benefits, specifically designated for the support of those children.

[Burke]

People have a hard time accepting the notion that they can't take an exemption for their minor children. It doesn't matter that they have collected tens of thousands in SS benefits, specifically designated for the support of those children.

It's an issue the IRS & SSA people ought to get together on and review in thosse cases. Because it's not just claiming the dependents, its CTC, EIC, etc. etc. All of which we are paying for.