apprentiship

[Possi]

My client is an apprentice and his only pay is from a personal loan. He is not drawing a paycheck, but is in strict training for a specialized biological scientific gig.

His wife is a teacher and draws a paycheck.

They have childcare expenses AND dependent care benefits.

Does his apprenticship (sp?) qualify his as a student for the 2441?

[KBTS]

According to the instructions for Form 2441, I would say he does not. It sounds like an on-the-job training course. Here is the text of the instructions:

Line 5
Spouse Who Was a Student or Disabled

Your spouse was a full-time student if he or she was enrolled as a full-time student at a school during any 5 months of 2011. A school does not include an on-the-job training course, correspondence school, or a school offering courses only through the Internet.

[Possi]

On the job?

Even if he isn't getting paid a dime, we should consider this on-the-job training?

I agree with you. He did take some college classes from 2 local colleges, but he wasn't full time.

Now, what about his business trips? If this is considered "on the job training" would I be able to take a training trip out of state?

I would think so, if this is "on the job training."

[Lion]

Looking

If on-the-job training isn't being a student, does he fit in the "working or looking for work" category?

[Possi]

Negative

If on-the-job training isn't being a student, does he fit in the "working or looking for work" category?

He is not looking for work.
He is working but not for pay. Well, really, he is an unpaid apprentice.

I'm good with the childcare not being acceptable. 5k will become taxable income. I get it. That is the way it should be.

But, as an apprentice, studying for this very specialized profession, I believe we are within the law to take the travel expenses, as this has a direct impact on his taxable income-producing income.

[Burke]

I am not so sure. He isn't actually employed in the profession yet, just learning/training. It looks like to me this is an expense to prepare him for a new occupation, not one he is currently engaged in for remuneration. That is the point of the business expense deduction.

[Possi]

so, it's a no win...

He is not in a conventional school, so they are disqualified for the 2441, and her dependent care benefits are going to be taxed.

He is an apprentice, unpaid, so he is not technically "employed" and cannot take the business expense.

I'm glad I have this forum. I might have overstepped my boundaries on one, but not both of these items. I was seeing it as "employed an an upaid apprentice."

Thanks~
no, really...
Thanks~~

I'm not looking for a "feel good" answer, just the right one. And this is right.

[Gary2]

How do the labor laws factor into this? Is the "employer" a non-profit? Though I don't see a dependent care credit (yet), it still feels like something's missing.

[Possi]

Not non-profit

No, this is a profitable business. The profession is very specialized and has something to do with water/biology something...

There are very few people in the US who specialize in this.

After he is done, he will have a sweet salary. A very smart, very upstanding man. It is a solid gig.