EA Failing RTRP Test

[DonPriebe]

Or you could adopt the New York State model for tax preparer registration. Phase one was to set up a requirement that all paid tax preparers (CPAs, EAs and Attorneys eventually excepted) register and send in an annual $100 fee. Phase two was to set up a committee that would explore other requirements to be met, such as education, testing, CPE, etc.

The committee may have been set up, but we've heard nothing about it. So we're now in the third year of registration and the only requirements are the ability to log into the NYS website and a valid credit card.

[AZ-Tax]

I am all for C-Ed plus C-Ethics but was the RTRP really neccessary?

From 1984 when I sat to take my 6 to 7 hour Series 7 securities license, followed by my insurance license, then Series 24 principals license, personal lines license and complying with my CE's all the way, I am a big believer in C-Ed but also C-Ethics to maintain or increase the professionalism. If someone didn’t have time to devout yrs in college and on the job work to obtain their CPA, there is the EA. There was NO reason and NO need for RTRP designation to be created but you absolutely are correct Koss about the lobbyist. Here in AZ our personal and commercial lines (auto, homeowners and commercial insurance) use to be one license but then the Geico’s, AARP(Hartford) ins etc. got to our state politicians and they created a “personal lines license”. The test is about ½ the time of the regular P&C exam and much easier. Passing ratio the first time is in the 90% while the first time P&C exam is 60% but still I can see the use for this. If you don’t sell commercial, no need to have a Commercial license but tax preparation is different. I am ok with the RTRP only authorized to prepare 1040 and related 1040 which I thought was the case when I first heard about the RTRP as that was the case but now I am hearing after 1/2013 RTRP will be unlimited to prepare 1120s, 1065’s, 1120’s etc. with NO additional testing.

[Koss]

Licensure

The NAEA and its equilavent for the CPA should have NEVER allowed the IRS to even consider adding another designation.

But what are you suggesting instead?

Would you have preferred that the IRS make no changes at all, and continue to allow unenrolled preparers, with no testing and no continuing education requirements?

No one wanted the status quo to continue.

Are you suggesting that the IRS should have simply declared that no one except CPAs, EAs, and attorneys can prepare tax returns?

This option likely would have caused a revolt in Congress. Under the law of supply and demand, this would so dramatically reduce the supply of qualified professionals that the cost of tax preparation would skyrocket.

And HRB is too influential. The lobbyists would have stopped this cold.

Would you water down the EA licensure, and make it possible to become an EA by just passing one exam?

That would be worse than adding a new designation.

BMK

[AZ-Tax]

In a way this whole thing is a JOKE

The NAEA and its equilavent for the CPA should have NEVER allowed the IRS to even consider adding another designation.

[lenboush]

This past August at the NTPI in Las Vegas, one of the speakers was David Williams from the IRS preparers office. He clearly stated that ALL of the options would be included in any publicity relating to educating the public about using licensed preparers.

Obviously, he was speaking to a large group of EA's so I suppose it is very possible that he formulated his statments in such a way as to reassure EA's. I know that I was not the only one who came away reassurd by his remarks.

What ends up happening, however, remains to be seen.

[taxmandan]

Is theIRS office that is implementing the RTRP credential the same office that maintains EA information? If you fail the RTRP exam they won't be checking the EA roster before ordering you to stop preparing returns and/or pulling your ERO ability. And you get to try to convince the bureaucracy that EAs exist. Exposing oneself to a needlessly risky bureaucratic SNAFU just seems dumb.

[Roberts]

I have a degree in Finance. I'm not going to go get an associates degree in business because it'll show I'm more broadly educated.

I am an EA. I need nothing else for what I do.

ACAT credentials are nothing more than someone wanting a quick credential because they can't get a better credential. JMO. I looked and never found a single job listing that required or requested an applicant hold one of their credentials. I work in the investments arena also. We have probably 100+ credentials you can earn in this field and only a few matter.

[Brad Imsdahl]

Brad, isn't this also discrimination, if they promote highly one designation? While I see CPA's in a different category (licensed by the State), I do see EA's under the wing of the IRS as well and I feel discriminated against.

Up to this point, IRS has never promoted or advertised the EA status. The only reason anyone in the public knows about EAs is because of the work done by the professional associations, such as NAEA.

IRS has indicated that they will do extensive public service advertising about the new RTRP credential. They want the public to know that paid preparers must be registered with the IRS and pass a competency exam.

I think it would be great if NAEA tries to influence IRS to include EAs in their public service announcements. I'm sure the AICPA is already doing that for their members.

[taxea]

As a EA I just don't see a need to have an RTPR designation. My qualifications as an EA exceed that title and also that of a CPA when it comes to taxes. No offense intended to anyone. It is simply a matter of educating the TP.
I can only hope that the IRS, with all their free advertising, includes the fact that the RTPR designation is the basic requirement to prepare taxes.
I am one of those who doesn't think EA associations do near enough to educate the public on what EA's are.

[Gretel]

Brad, isn't this also discrimination, if they promote highly one designation? While I see CPA's in a different category (licensed by the State), I do see EA's under the wing of the IRS as well and I feel discriminated against.

On the other hand one could say that using RTRP and EA in the same context would not do justice to the much tougher test and requirements for an EA.

I guess EA's can't win this game unless heavily advertised by our professional organization, which I know they will do. Still, IRS could support this more.

[taxea]

A lot of people asking the same question are indeed researching it. This forum is one way of researching, isn't it? There are several places to check, but none seem to have any absolute answers yet (not even the IRS) .
I know one of the reasons I may take the test is because I am retired and do taxes because I love doing them. I only prepare individual and small business returns and don't wish to do corp's, etc (I used to do them, but don't now).
I have never had any of my clients have an audit (35 yrs). Therefore, I feel I can do the same amount of returns without having to complete as many CPE's. I do review a lot of archives to keep up on everything, and attend at least a 2 day seminar per year. I speak to a lot of EA's and a lot have the same feeling as I do. People just don't recognize the advantage of the EA vs a RTRP. The wording of a "registered tax return preparer" is easier to understand than "enrolled agent" for people looking at advertisements. My clients are not the "high end" clients. Most of my clients live in a small town that are low to middle wage earners (and I like it that way.). Several are high end wage earners.
Everyone has their own reasons for wanting to take the test. Some EA's want to take it in order to add another title to their name. I am not that person.
I wanted to know if anyone had the answer to my question. I don't want to be negatively judged on why I would want to take the test because I am an EA. I am weighing my options and am looking into this subject as are many others. Thanks

No this forum is to get the options of other tax preparers who may have more experience or knowledge and to get guidance on where to find the resource you are looking for.

I just can't imagine any reason why an EA would bother with taking the test. If you are an EA you are already a step above an RTRP which is the basic requirement to prepare and file tax returns. I don't find it difficult for the TP to figure out the difference and I certainly wouldn't give up my EA status.
Nothing in the code says an EA is required to do other than 1040 returns. I quit doing 1120 returns, too, because I got tired of people opening businesses as S-Corps and Corps without researching and understanding the requirements that go along with the business....like a knowledge of accounting or hiring someone who knows how to keep financial records. I won't even do LLC's unless it is a sole proprietor.

I know that the IRS is planning on limiting RTRP's to 1040 returns in the future. That will be sometime after all have been registered and passed the required testing. Only after that they might be required to test further in order to submit business returns. This does not exceed what EA's training and testing provides.

RTRP-registered tax preparer
EA-recognized tax expert

[Bees Knees]

IRS RTRP ads

The public is not close to this issue and cannot be expected to know everything we have learned these past few years. The public will only know what they see on TV public service announcements put out by the IRS.

Knowing the way the IRS operates, in their attempt at constructing informational public service advertising that informs the public about the new RTRP credential, I can imagine such advertising will leave out or minimize the EA & CPA credentials. Thus, I can imagine certain members of the public will as a result have the mistaken impression that ALL paid return preparers are now required to have the RTRP credential.

I can imagine having to clarify this issue to several of my existing clients, and potentially losing new clients who believe they must find an RTRP to prepare their return.

[JohnH]

Laying aside for a moment the personal attacks, which I agree have no place here, I like the conviction behind the positions taken. If I were a client, I'd be comfortable having any of the posters in this thread on my side in an audit. Given your passion and commitment, it seems the client would be well represented.

[Uncle Sam]

RTRP Advertising

That's an interesting fact.

Knowing that IRS will be providing free publicity for a particular credential is a motive
for attaining it and attracting potential new clients due to that.

Guess CPAs and EAs need to change their marketing programs to promote their business..

[ruthc]

Thank you!

Thank you so much for the information. I will certainly tell anyone that has been asking me the same question your response. I appreciate it!
Thanks for your forum. All in all I think it is great!!!