breaking point

[Unregistered]

Thats it I have had it.
Client comes in with 70000net in Se income form a sch c plus some other items I calculate a balance due of roughly 7300 and he flips because the guy at h&R across the street said he would owe only 1700 . now I have been doing taxes for 10 years and I am officially fed up with H&R and the rift raft that they hire . When they say we'll get you the biggest refund, they don't mention that it might be the wrong amount.

I have two of these so called tax prep offices in my small city and I had a clinet come over the other day with an itemized 1040 that the girl at H&R was trying to do. The client left after two hours with no answer on what she had actually calculated. Seriously I am sure they have a few qualified individuals , but really 2 hours . I have done 1065's and 1120's that didn't take 2 hours.

[Gary]

Thanks

Thanks for admitting that H&R Block might have a few qualified individuals.

Gary

[S T]

It is Not Just H&R

It could be any tax prep service, not just H&R, altho for the most part I would agree, but then we have Jackson & Hewitt, Liberty and other high volume low tax prep fees in my area as well.

Ask the T/p to bring you what the other tax prep service prepared. If the other tax prep service calculated $1700 rather than the $7000 + why is he coming to you requesting that you prepare and calculate his return? He was expecting less than $1,700??

I would ask more questions and request a printout! You should be able to justify your figures easily!

Sandy

[Unregistered]

thats the problem the client didn't want to pay the 350 that they were going to charge him. I told him if he actually got me the return i could most likely tell him in matter of seconds why there was a difference.

I have a idea that they most likely calculated the se improperly or didn't limit the in home office deduction by the 10% which is the % of the office in relation to the total home.

[S T]

So your charges

So what are your charges for time spent!

Sandy

[Unregistered]

I am for the moment taking the high road I told him to go back to h&r and have them do the return , Then bring it to me if they are wrong then they should refund them his money because I believe that is H&R's policy. So far I have not charged them anything

[Unregistered]

your right it is not jus h&r it is also JH and LIB but for pete's sake when is enough enough?

[Unregistered]

by the way GARY not to offend h&R people out there but since when is a 10week course give a person the ability to prepare a tax return. I mean between ripping people off on IRA's and yes they did get ripped off. I am a licensed CFP and EA and the first rule of investing is you must first have savings , preying on the poor of this country has to stop.

[S T]

Good for you

A lesson learned last year! I prepared a tax return which was NOT uncomplicated, and was somewhat suspect in deductions vs income. So I analyzed and analyzed some more. Once I was comfortable with the final outcome notified the client about the refunds. Client questioned some of the deductions I did not take and why. Then said okay. We faxed over the 8879 forms and also our invoice.

End result was she would not pay the invoice. She said she would only pay 50% of invoice. We said, pick up the documents, we will do no more!!! Go to the tax preparer down the street! So I was paid nothing for my time and effort to what I felt was a properly prepared return. T/P on the other hand was only returned her original documents and nothing more.

Lesson, retainer up front for time spent in calculating, regardless of the end result and whether the client chooses us to complete the final tax return and sign our name to it as preparer. As tough as it is time is money for us, our education, our expertise, etc.

I know I don't do it all the time, but leaning heavily this direction, have the client pay a retainer up front, before the return is completed. (this is particularly true for new clients or doubtful old time clients)

Sandy

[Snaggletooth]

Did You Compare?

To "Unregistered" -- did you have the $1700 return at the time you prepared the $7000 return? If so, could you not have compared the two, allowing you to be very specific about what HRB left out? If so, we would like to hear from you as to just how dumb you think this HRB guy really is.

All of us really detest many of the things HRB does. You heard earlier from Gary who works at Block and is one of the truly "good guys" on this board. And they do have competent people -- at least one sharp tax person in every office.

But they push RALs. They sell Lottery Tickets. They're now getting into selling IRAs and other financial products, and I think it's safe to say that NONE of the aforementioned are in the best interest of the customer, and their banking products are fee-ridden and not competitive. And the client who walks in and takes a number is just as apt to be serviced by a greenhorn out of their quickie class as not. Their preparers are paid low so they can all look forward to a bonus at April 15th. And the bonus is based on what? Sheer number of returns prepared??

I have friends at Block just like Gary. And I hope they understand why most of us are appalled at some of the latest tactics Block is doing outside the scope of tax prep. And even their tax prep is suspect in a very high percentage of cases. The well-being of the client is sacrificed on their latest profit scheme.

Bigger is NOT better. Compare your local hardware store with Wal Mart, and see which one can really service you better when you need them.

I know I'm ranting, but it really hits me in the wrong place when I see some of these HRB advertisements on TV. The friends I have at HRB?? I really wish they would get out and open their own practice.

[Matt Sova]

Crazy woman

I picked up a new client this year and man, am I sorry I did!!! This chick is nuts. She has always gone to HRB in the past, but for some reason she switched this year. She has a Schedule C that shows a loss just like it did the last 2 years (I have only seen the prior 2 years) and she has a rental property with income. Well the prior preparer from HRB (no offense Gary, it was not you) put the rental real estate on Schedule C subj to SE tax so she could take her Med Ins on page 1 since she does not have enough to itemize. There were a few more things that she thought I did "incorrectly" until I whipped out The Tax Book and started quoting tax law to her. Her response prior to that was "this is the way we use to do it". After I proved to her that what I did was correct she paid and left. I had the ladies in my office rolling on the floor with the following tirade (of course the client was gone and no one else was in the office):

"Oh, I see, 'that is the way we use to do it'. That makes sense. Hey listen next time your feeling ill, why don't you COVER YOUR BODY WITH LEECHES TO SUCK THE ILLNESS OUTTA YOU BECAUSE, HEY, 'THAT IS THE WAY WE USE TO DO IT!!!'"

It would not have been so bad except for the fact that this woman was a RAVING B**CH.

OK, I'm done ranting now.

Matt

[oceanlovin'ea]

Hrb

I worked for HRB for 15 years before I left and eventually started my own business. I agree that we had some excellent preparers and some who were disasters. When I started in the mid 80's, we were required to take at least one course plus the update class each year. The classes were very good. First year of course covered a lot of things but the ones after that dealt with just a few subjects in detail.

I also worked in an office that had 3 or 4 preparers who had been there for 10 or more years and were very knowledgeable. We asked questions and they showed us the right way to do things. Our office was very special group of people and we all helped each other. But toward the end of the time I was there things were starting to change. Owners of franchise died and son took over. He looked at $$$$$$ and really began a lot of shortcuts and changed procedures. That was when I got fed up.

We also "wrote" returns when I started. I know that everyone is glad that we use computers now and that is part of progress. But I feel that I LEARNED more when I wrote returns. When you have to work out a form and then take that figure to the right line of the next form, you understand better. Sometimes now I feel like a data entry clerk.

Even though I was told to sell their other products, I never did. If someone asked me about something they saw advertised, I would tell them about it. So of course that got me in hot water every year.

I'm sure that it is different now in their offices. Well, enough ranting about HRB and back to work.

Linda F

[Gary]

My Turn

I definitely do not believe in some of our products such as express IRAs. I also think MOST clients that take RALs could very well wait a few days and save money, but they don't want to, and they are adults. Yes, I am embarrassed at some of the news items of late. The c ompany has definitly changed since the Bloch brothers were in charge.

That being said, I agree that some of out preparers are not the best, but I have corrected returns brought in by clients from CPAs and other private tax professionals. In my office, we have two new tax preparers and eight who have been with Block four or more years. They are all very good. When we have difficult returns, we discuss it with each other.

Some of you ask why I don't go out on my own. First of all, I'm retired (a physicist in my past life) and like doing taxes. I certainly don't do it for the money, although I believe I should be paid a reasonable salary (this is why I would never work during the off-season). I am not a saleman, and don't push products. I just like the challenge of doing taxes. I would not want the responsibility of running a business. In retirement, I have another life. I am taking two music courses at the local community college, and I play in a band (hammered dulcimer). Every summer and fall, I take tax courses, many more than required to continue working at Block. My life is very full, but I enjoy preparing tax returns. I can do this at Block without the responsibilites many of you have.

Gary

[Gretel]

Gary, wouldn't you want to come and work for me? I promise I'll keep all the responsibility.

Have a good day.

Gabriele

[veritas]

I took Block's basic course several years after being in practice. It was excellent. I found that it was very good for the basics. All preparers including CPAs should be required to take something like it.