Ssn Verification

[taxea]

Is anyone out there as upset as I am that the SSA will not give us tax pro's access to SSN verification? They have even made it possible for Joe Citizen to verify his/her SSN for working purposes.
The only others are business who do payroll or their payroll agents. And this program is expensive to use.
Can't they see that we would be doing them a big favor by identifying false SSN? I just don't understand

[S T]

Purpose

What purpose do you want to use the SSNVS in preparing Tax Returns?
SSA verification is for wage reporting

See the SSA link http://www.ssa.gov/employer/ssnvspamphlet.htm

I now am having my payroll clients use E-verify - one such client had to enroll as part of the City Business License Issuance.

For tax preparation, I don't check on - but then I don't prepare a lot of Walk-In unknown tax clients, and very seldom the EITC returns.

S

[taxea]

I would like to verify in cases where the client, new, can't find the card and takes the number from memory and I get a reject because of it.

[FEDUKE404]

Guessing ??

I would like to verify in cases where the client, new, can't find the card and takes the number from memory and I get a reject because of it.

If the client cannot "remember" his/her Social Security number then that is likely the least of the problems you may encounter!!

I would NEVER prepare/file a tax return without something more substantial in hand than a "best guess" Social Security number!! (Someone more knowledgeable than I can chime in on the required "due diligence" rules the IRS now has in place....)

A client can visit the local SS office and, with proper identification, immediately be given an acceptable official printout showing the SS information. (OTOH, if the person wants a replacement card, things do take a lot longer.) I have taken this approach many times - when I was with one of the "big name" firms - and clients generally understand the need and readily comply.

There is certainly nothing wrong with "preparing" the tax return, but not efiling it until you have been provided suitable documentation.

FE

[ToledoEd]

Most of the times I have had SS# problems on returns it comes down to changing names due to divorce or mariage. One time I had a copy of the SS card and it still was not accepted. Thru trial and error I found that the computer had the last name misspelled, (actually it had dropped a vowel),

We do have new clients provide SS cards for themselves and their dependents, and give directions to the SS office for those who need them. In the past I have accepted the W-2;s or 1099s if they are from companies that I know.

[taxea]

If the client cannot "remember" his/her Social Security number then that is likely the least of the problems you may encounter!!

I would NEVER prepare/file a tax return without something more substantial in hand than a "best guess" Social Security number!! (Someone more knowledgeable than I can chime in on the required "due diligence" rules the IRS now has in place....)

A client can visit the local SS office and, with proper identification, immediately be given an acceptable official printout showing the SS information. (OTOH, if the person wants a replacement card, things do take a lot longer.) I have taken this approach many times - when I was with one of the "big name" firms - and clients generally understand the need and readily comply.

There is certainly nothing wrong with "preparing" the tax return, but not efiling it until you have been provided suitable documentation.

FE

I verify everything but sometimes the client can't find the card and can't get to SSA in a timely fashion. And what about the cards that were obtained illegally? I always ask for a copy of the card for each person who will appear on the tax return. If I am given a phoney card how would I know this? If the return rejects it is faster to verify the card and deal with the client after I know for sure that the number is not right.
The world is not perfect unfortunately.

[FEDUKE404]

SSN from memory?

I verify everything but sometimes the client can't find the card and can't get to SSA in a timely fashion. And what about the cards that were obtained illegally? I always ask for a copy of the card for each person who will appear on the tax return. If I am given a phoney card how would I know this? If the return rejects it is faster to verify the card and deal with the client after I know for sure that the number is not right.
The world is not perfect unfortunately.

Obviously I must have misread the relevant comment.

There is much difference between a person who "takes the number from memory" versus presenting various documents (such as prior filed tax returns or W2s or 1099s) at the time of tax preparation.

And having worked in EITC mills for a couple of seasons, for my own business I would be skeptical of any Soc Sec card that I could not see and copy. Should the actual card, in your words, turn out to be "phoney" that is something pretty much out of my personal control.

While the world may well not be perfect, rest assured there are many who will use all available tricks to skirt the law. If it is within my power to avoid being personally involved in such scenarios, rest assured I will do so. I am not that desperate for clients...

And, FWIW, now that the IRS can toss some serious penalties at preparers who push their luck a bit too far, rest assured I am now even more careful!

I'm still waiting for someone more familiar with the actual IRS rules to chime in about what due diligence a preparer must now use for such essential filing information as Soc Sec numbers, especially for dependents. We already know they are (finally!!) sniffing around EITC tax returns.

FE

[taxea]

Off the top of my head I am pretty sure that the IRS recommended verification of the SSN by actually looking at the card. As a rule I require a copy of same with the rest of the client's docs but if it is phooney...how is one to know.

[JG EA]

Off the top of my head I am pretty sure that the IRS recommended verification of the SSN by actually looking at the card. As a rule I require a copy of same with the rest of the client's docs but if it is phooney...how is one to know.

No, I don't think that is correct. Only an employer while filling out his portion of an I-9 is required to look at the SS Card IF that is the document submitted. For instance, if an employee provides a passport instead of a SS Card and a driver's license then the employer looks at that document only. Employers may not ask for the card when verifying thel W-4.

The IRS suggests to the public not to carry their SS Card except when applying for employment.

That said - if may be prudent to look at cards which I have done when there are many children, or new childrent, etc. But WITH the taxpayer's permission. It is not demanded or required.

Usually there are many documents with which to check that number. Although I do worry about this checking when now they are using just the last four numbers.

[joanmcq]

I had one return that kept rejecting due to the SSN of the taxpayer; I checked name, got a copy of her SSN, and finally rushed a paper copy to her on 4/15. Never found out what the issue was; her mom didn't file with her as a dependent...maybe ID theft. It was a definite pain in the butt.

[taxea]

No, I don't think that is correct. Only an employer while filling out his portion of an I-9 is required to look at the SS Card IF that is the document submitted. For instance, if an employee provides a passport instead of a SS Card and a driver's license then the employer looks at that document only. Employers may not ask for the card when verifying thel W-4.

The IRS suggests to the public not to carry their SS Card except when applying for employment.

That said - if may be prudent to look at cards which I have done when there are many children, or new childrent, etc. But WITH the taxpayer's permission. It is not demanded or required.

Usually there are many documents with which to check that number. Although I do worry about this checking when now they are using just the last four numbers.

I
I don't believe I said "required"

[taxea]

I had one return that kept rejecting due to the SSN of the taxpayer; I checked name, got a copy of her SSN, and finally rushed a paper copy to her on 4/15. Never found out what the issue was; her mom didn't file with her as a dependent...maybe ID theft. It was a definite pain in the butt.

I would have called the e-file dept of the IRS.

[MAJ]

ID? You want ID!??

Ok.. New clients we are referring to... But I get as much as I can without forcing.
I am re-doing my file structure.. More later....

MY ID was stolen. TWELVE years+ someone used my SS#. Didn't impact me too much actually. I only saw things IF I applied for UnEmployment. So $2k shows up in late 2001 and then again in 2008 - but this time $23+K. Numerous Police reports.. and NOTHING.
Called SS; IRS and random people in the phone book to alarm them.
IRS & SS had NO knowledge of the money. Nor did they acknowledge anything actually.
Very Frustrating...
I did some detective work and hunted him down based on MY Unemployment printout. Where I worked... So I got the restaurant name and kept pushing. Cops still did NOTHING when the women at the restaurant knows where the guy works now!

I've received phone calls for collection from dozens of companies in multiple states because in the end, when search, that SS# still comes back to me too!!

My wife made a call to a childhood friend who happens to be in the SS {no, Secret Service) here in NJ. He used to be Gore's body guard.
He forced Police activity - Know what he was charged with?

Obtaining a job, in the city of Randolph, NJ with a False ID.
That's it - they didn't wait or hold him for Federal activity, deportation, nothing.

The Stupidity upsets me..

[David1980]

I would have called the e-file dept of the IRS.

Have you ever actually gotten the e-file department to tell you the name for a SSN or the SSN for a name? I don't think they do that, though I could be wrong.

Fraud. That's the reason there's no easily accessible SS verification resources. If you could plug in a SSN / name and check for matches, it would be trivial to create a program that just tries SSN after SSN, thousands and thousands of SSNs against common names, once you get a valid SSN file a fraudulent return.

I'd much prefer that if someone tried finding my name off my SSN, or my SSN off my name, that nobody would tell them. I know my SSN and I know my name and if I forget it or type it wrong I know where to go find my social security information. With proper identification etc. etc...

[taxea]

Have you ever actually gotten the e-file department to tell you the name for a SSN or the SSN for a name? I don't think they do that, though I could be wrong.

Fraud. That's the reason there's no easily accessible SS verification resources. If you could plug in a SSN / name and check for matches, it would be trivial to create a program that just tries SSN after SSN, thousands and thousands of SSNs against common names, once you get a valid SSN file a fraudulent return.

I'd much prefer that if someone tried finding my name off my SSN, or my SSN off my name, that nobody would tell them. I know my SSN and I know my name and if I forget it or type it wrong I know where to go find my social security information. With proper identification etc. etc...

To provide me with info is a violation of confidentiality. To verify that the name I give them is the same as the name they have is not a violation.
From prior poster-the secret service, not the police. are the enforcers of SS fraud. It is a federal offense.

I am not, at all, suggesting that the verification provide us with info we don't have but if we input an SSN and the name we have it would be nice if the response simply said "match or no match".