Non-Debt Credit Card

[taxmandan]

Another need for a credit card is to rent a car, Enterprise, etal. won't accept a debit card for rentals, almost derailed our last Hawaii trip because I didn't know that and planned to use my debit card.

Sounds like I'm in the minority here, but I've used a debit card for close to 20 years now with no issues re: lost/stolen card, charge backs etc. Can't recall the last time I wrote out a paper check, and I would never use a credit card for groceries or other small personal spending. Seems like many folks have a major fear of the lack of limits on liability with a debit card that is stolen or lost, I just handle my card like its' a 16 oz. gold bar. I don't ever give a card, cc or debit to someone who then walks away with it to ring up the bill, like many restaurants do these days.

One thing I do for on-line purchases is to use a debt card from a separate CU account that I use solely for ordering on-line. I only put enough money in the account to cover each purchase at the time I buy and would never use my primary account number on-line. Just another method to safe guard my finances. Again, I've never had a problem with that account even though I've used it with dozens of on-line merchanats.

[equinecpa]

7.Also many credit cards double the warranty of items purchased with the credit card. I never buy extended warranties because most often my credit card will give me at least the coverage offered by the extended warranty for no cost at all.

8. The ability to create a temporary card # for online purchases so you don't have to fret about purchasing from an unsecure/unknown site.

[FEDUKE404]

Keeping everything separate

... Can't recall the last time I wrote out a paper check, and I would never use a credit card for groceries or other small personal spending....

Would you mind explaining your reasoning for this approach?

(Especially since you apparently have no aversion to doing so with a debit card.)

Assuming you pay the full balance monthly, I just don't follow the inherent logic. (Well, the same with small/large charges or maintaining separate low risk/high risk bank accounts.) As a holder of two, and only two, credit cards for the last way too many years, I just don't have the time or mindset to "pigeon hole" all of my numerous purchases based upon extraneous criteria. A possible exception would be if I wanted a separate "business" card, as others here have already noted.

Most folks admit your monetary exposure is, in the long run, equal with debit/credit cards (with proper notification of unauthorized use) but I do see a greater risk with a debit card which can draw down funds in a bank account and then subsequent valid payments (think mortgage, taxes) from that same account might unexpectedly bounce. In the end you will get the funds replaced, but in the interim you might be writing a lot of letters re the "bad checks."

And as for the card "walking away" in a restaurant: The vast majority of all restaurants I visit have that as a common practice for paying for a meal, except for places like McDonalds. Such an approach seems a bit paranoid and might well create some "anxious moments" with the wait staff. Add more to this discussion.

FE

[taxmandan]

Would you mind explaining your reasoning for this approach?

(Especially since you apparently have no aversion to doing so with a debit card.)
(snip)
And as for the card "walking away" in a restaurant: The vast majority of all restaurants I visit have that as a common practice for paying for a meal, except for places like McDonalds. Such an approach seems a bit paranoid and might well create some "anxious moments" with the wait staff. Add more to this discussion.

FE

I have one credit card and only for the purpose of unexpected emergency needs, not for everyday use. In fact it's sitting in my vault so I have to make a significant effort to go get it to use. Like I said, I've used a debit card since the early 1990s and never had an issue with lost/stolen activity. I think the protection of the law in losses on a credit card is overblown and not a concern to anyone who uses reasonable care in the use of either card.

>"Such an approach seems a bit paranoid and might well create some "anxious moments" with the wait staff."

Not really, '—>Visa reports that more credit card information is stolen at restaurants than at any other type of business. 40% of all credit card information theft is traced back to restaurants.' (The Consumerist) http://con.st/248413 Now that includes hackers getting in to the restaurants computer system, not just the wait staff but still....it's definitely a vulnerable location for using either type of card. I pay cash when eating out, there's always an ATM at a CU somewhere enroute to the restaurant if I'm without cash at the moment.

Different strokes for different folks.

[David1980]

I think the protection of the law in losses on a credit card is overblown and not a concern to anyone who uses reasonable care in the use of either card.

Realistically, any internet purchase would be risky. Especially if you purchase from smaller internet websites. Speaking for myself, I throw caution to the wind and will input my credit card information freely on all sorts of different sites, as long as it's an encrypted connection (the little "lock" icon) and I don't get bad vibes. But you always have the risk the company or even an employee at the company will take the card data and use it. Which has happened to me.

I just look at it as zero downsides, lots of upsides. I don't want to be super careful with my card - I have it so I can use it. I use it on the internet. I let people take it at restaurants to charge my meal. And I risk nothing, thanks to legal protection. Win-win!

[FEDUKE404]

And so it shall be

I have one credit card and only for the purpose of unexpected emergency needs, not for everyday use. In fact it's sitting in my vault so I have to make a significant effort to go get it to use. /Different strokes for different folks.

AMEN to that!

I guess my aged brain simply cannot fathom: 1) Having a credit card "in a vault" versus 2) Having a separate debit card for daily use.

For all intents and purposes, other than when the money is removed from your bank account, the cards are identical. Also many (most) folks legitimately perceive a greater potential risk with a debit card than with a credit card!

And I simply don't let the paranoids get to me - the gas pump might have a "reader" or the ATM network might be compromised or the local steak house might be owned by the mafia or someone might have messed with the cash register at the IHOP or ....

If things get that bad, I'll just consider cash.

Just curious: What do you do about personal checks with your account numbers, and likely other personal information, on them? Virtually all banks and most merchants/businesses now "scan" them (many with only a reader) and the physical checks never make it back to your bank.

FE

[taxmandan]

I don't recall the last time I wrote a paper check, I think my check book is in the vault too. Oops, my wife just informed me that she writes a check for the offering at church, apparently they haven't set up a merchant account to accept contributions (do VISA/MC even allow that?) yet. So I guess she has the checkbook, but bills are paid by auto-pay at the CU, and the debit card is used for pretty much everything day to day, or cash. Not to get off point but the CU doesn't even take a deposit slip with deposits, that is something I'm not totally comfortable with yet but it's more paperless processes.

[Gary2]

Not really, '—>Visa reports that more credit card information is stolen at restaurants than at any other type of business.

One well-known restaurant in my area has started using portable scanners, so that the wait staff swipes your card at your table - given them much less opportunity to make imprints, copy numbers, etc.

One thing I do is to black out the security code on the back of the cards. Instead, I have those numbers programmed into my encrypted software wallet, so it's still available for online purchases.

[travis bickle]

nos. 9, 10& 11

9/ rental car insurance.
we will soon be making a trip to france. i called my auto insurance company, and my policy is NOT in effect in france. the cc company normally provides secondary car insurance BUT in this instance, where my personal auto policy is not in force, the cc company becomes primary insurance = if i have any accident(s), no hit on my auto policy!

10/ church
especially to taxmandan - keep trying. my church does accept online donations via cc or paypal. i make the offering there and forget about it. at the end of the year, all donations are itemized out for me [and, i always make sure that any individual donation does not exceed $200]

11/ recurring payments.
i pay my phone bill, online stamp company, and electric bill by AUTOMATIC recurring payments against my cc. kind of hard to forget to make a payment when it is done automatically for you. and, of course, each company sends me an email when the event occurs.

based on all of the above - plus the other reasons - why would i want a debit card??
so far, mrs bickle and i have made two trips to sweden, one to denmark, one to the philippines, two to switzerland and we are planning our next trip to france. ON ALL THOSE TRIPS WE HAVE USED FF POINTS AND HOTEL POINTS SO THAT WE HAVE HAD TOTALLY FREE (well, the incidental taxes) AIR TRAVEL AND HOTEL STAYS.

[JohnH]

But I didn't report it because the thief spent less than my wife would have.

Too bad I didn't think of that!

So where were you when I needed you?

[FEDUKE404]

Sometimes plastic is not the best option

.....11/ recurring payments.
i pay my phone bill, online stamp company, and electric bill by AUTOMATIC recurring payments against my cc. kind of hard to forget to make a payment when it is done automatically for you. and, of course, each company sends me an email when the event occurs.

While I follow your logic, one thing I have noted is that (at least in this area) it is quite common for certain utilities and/or government agencies to add a surcharge to all payments made by a credit/debit card. For that reason, I prefer to use online banking to make such payments (from my checking account) for me. I guess I do give up a few missed bonuses from the credit card rebates, but I'm fairly averse to paying any additional fees up front just because I choose to pay via credit card.

As for whether any church does/does not accept credit cards, my own church accepts no credit card payments, even though it is one of the largest churches in the area. I just, again, use the online bill pay. I'm not quite sure what relevance the "i always make sure that any individual donation does not exceed $200" prior comment has because my church always sends me a quarterly/annual receipt of eligible contributions. For the sake of simplicity, I actually only make around four church payments (each exceeding $250) during a given calendar year. Playing devil's advocate, if you use the credit card (only) receipts approach I guess someone charging a $75 Christmas tree at the annual bazaar could perhaps get a bit creative with that "donation"??

FE

[travis bickle]

Well, obviously ....

While I follow your logic, one thing I have noted is that (at least in this area) it is quite common for certain utilities and/or government agencies to add a surcharge to all payments made by a credit/debit card. For that reason, I prefer to use online banking to make such payments (from my checking account) for me. I guess I do give up a few missed bonuses from the credit card rebates, but I'm fairly averse to paying any additional fees up front just because I choose to pay via credit card.

As for whether any church does/does not accept credit cards, my own church accepts no credit card payments, even though it is one of the largest churches in the area. I just, again, use the online bill pay. I'm not quite sure what relevance the "i always make sure that any individual donation does not exceed $200" prior comment has because my church always sends me a quarterly/annual receipt of eligible contributions. For the sake of simplicity, I actually only make around four church payments (each exceeding $250) during a given calendar year. Playing devil's advocate, if you use the credit card (only) receipts approach I guess someone charging a $75 Christmas tree at the annual bazaar could perhaps get a bit creative with that "donation"??

FE

. . . I check to see if any additional charges are added to a recurring payment applied against a credit card - does not everyone? In fact, there are two companies I have that do precisely that and for that reason I have not signed up for recurring payments with them.

. . . the reason I do not make a donation to the church offering in excess of $200 is because I want to avoid the necessity of showing the IRS a specific check when a donation in excess of $250 is claimed. And...still obviously...someone COULD try and game the system and claim that their $75 purchase of a Christmas tree is a donation... BUT ... my church also issues statements showing how much is contributed each year.

So, your point is what?

[FEDUKE404]

Explanation as requested

. . . I check to see if any additional charges are added to a recurring payment applied against a credit card - does not everyone? In fact, there are two companies I have that do precisely that and for that reason I have not signed up for recurring payments with them.

. . . the reason I do not make a donation to the church offering in excess of $200 is because I want to avoid the necessity of showing the IRS a specific check when a donation in excess of $250 is claimed. And...still obviously...someone COULD try and game the system and claim that their $75 purchase of a Christmas tree is a donation... BUT ... my church also issues statements showing how much is contributed each year.

So, your point is what?

Well.....since you asked.....(Is someone having a bad day? Favorite team lost??)

1 - My point was that *I* avoid making certain payments via credit card because *I* do not see the reason to pay anywhere from a 2%-5% surcharge that certain vendors automatically add for any and all credit/debit card charges. (In the local area that would include any payments for property taxes and several utilities.) *I* never uttered the word "recurring" so I fail to see why *I* should be questioned about same.

2 - As for the <$200 issue, *I* just don't concern myself at all with how many checks *I* may or may not have to ever show to the IRS. IF the IRS came calling, *I* would just produce the official annual donation statement that my church already provides, whether *I* write them checks for $10 or $10,000.

This in no way diminishes the option that should someone choose to write a $100 check to the church twice daily for each day of the year, *(s)he* is certainly entitled to do so. Hopefully the bookkeeper at the church would not have too many problems with such a system, although a couple of extra #10 envelopes to store those checks for future presentation might be prudent.

[travis bickle]

It seems you have a reading impediment

Well.....since you asked.....(Is someone having a bad day? Favorite team lost??)

1 - My point was that *I* avoid making certain payments via credit card because *I* do not see the reason to pay anywhere from a 2%-5% surcharge that certain vendors automatically add for any and all credit/debit card charges. (In the local area that would include any payments for property taxes and several utilities.) *I* never uttered the word "recurring" so I fail to see why *I* should be questioned about same.

2 - As for the <$200 issue, *I* just don't concern myself at all with how many checks *I* may or may not have to ever show to the IRS. IF the IRS came calling, *I* would just produce the official annual donation statement that my church already provides, whether *I* write them checks for $10 or $10,000.

This in no way diminishes the option that should someone choose to write a $100 check to the church twice daily for each day of the year, *(s)he* is certainly entitled to do so. Hopefully the bookkeeper at the church would not have too many problems with such a system, although a couple of extra #10 envelopes to store those checks for future presentation might be prudent.

if you will re-read my post, you might read where it says that I do not use a cc when a surcharge is involved.

and

if your church's annual statement suffices, I wonder why the IRS does not list that as documentation for gifts in excess of $250.

if

you choose to forego POTENTIAL advantages (e.g,, FF points, hotel points, limit of $50 for non-authorized uses, primary rental card insurance, etc.), fine by me. Just because I partake of those -- and other -- advantages is no reason for you to get your knickers in a twist.

Have a nice life

[FEDUKE404]

Well, OK.....

you choose to forego POTENTIAL advantages (e.g,, FF points, hotel points, limit of $50 for non-authorized uses, primary rental card insurance, etc.), fine by me. Just because I partake of those -- and other -- advantages is no reason for you to get your knickers in a twist.

Have a nice life

A blatant and erroneous misstatement of my position as clearly explained earlier in this thread.

But to refresh your memory, I use credit (but not debit) cards whenever possible and I am quite aware of all "POTENTIAL advantages" of such an approach. FWIW, my annual cash rebates frequently are in the four-digit range.

And, as further clarification, I avoid using a credit card for any payment, whether or not it is "recurring," if there is a surcharge for doing so attached. Plan B is bill pay through my bank...I "write" far less than six actual checks in any given year.

My knickers are not in a distressed state, so far as I can tell.