Decedent filing status

[FEDUKE404]

You can't do that....

......

Normally, son has been claimed as his father's dependent (non-custodial parent) because his income is much higher and the exemption is worth more than to the mother.
For 2011, it might make sense to put son on mom's return as dependent to maximize education tax credit. (Dad's income is too high.)

Further thoughts?

I concur with JohnH.

The tax rules just do not allow you to "choose" who gets to claim the dependent.

Issues to be considered were who can (50% support rule) claim the dependent, or is there a divorce decree issue, and finally where the son actually lived apart from temporary college absence considerations.

As others have noted, it is certainly possible for a parent to claim HOH even if, for whatever reasons, that parent cannot claim the actual dependency exemption.

Although they are related to a certain extent, there are separate sets of circumstances that must be considered relative to a valid claim for HOH and a valid claim for the dependency exemption.

FE

[Golden Rocket]

Agree

With John and FEDuke. You can't just claim what you wish to maximize tax liability or credits.

Gary2 is one of our most knowledgeable, but he may have inserted the election of a dependency deduction (with the 8332) with the claiming of educational credits or a child's ability to claim himself.

It's bad enough when clients show up (without an 8332) and demand that you contrive dependency status to "ever which of us works out best."

[JohnH]

And when they start out asking us to give the dependency deduction to "ever which one of us works out best", a certain predictable chain of events is set in motion. If we don't give them the answer they are looking for they will decide to take their stuff back home and "see if I can come up with some more info". Which means they now know what to say to the next preparer they take it to because they aren't coming back.

Personally I'm OK with that because I'd usually rather they go somewhere else anyhow. Unfortunately, I've also been the second guy in this chain of events from time-to-time. But it usually isn't too hard to sniff that you're the second guy in the chain because these folks come in knowing TOO MUCH.

[David1980]

The taxpayer was a widow (2nd husband died in 2010).

So the taxpayer was married during 2010?

[S T]

First things First ?

Filing Status - then dependency rules

If taxpayer was married during 2010 and husband passed in 2010 and widow had not remarried by 12/31/10 -would it not be a married joint return or a married filing separate return

The taxpayer was a widow (2nd husband died in 2010).

Not sure how the HOH came into consideration?

What am I missing?

Sandy

[FEDUKE404]

Confusion reigns

Filing Status - then dependency rules

If taxpayer was married during 2010 and husband passed in 2010 and widow had not remarried by 12/31/10 -would it not be a married joint return or a married filing separate return

Not sure how the HOH came into consideration?

What am I missing?

Sandy

I think perhaps we are discussing the tax return for 2011 ???

FE

[David1980]

I think perhaps we are discussing the tax return for 2011 ???

FE

You know, the September 2011 date does seem relevant when you look at it that way.

[S T]

Well different dates in Posts

Can the final return for a decedent use head of household filing status, assuming all dependency and support tests were met prior to the date of death (Sept. 10, 2011)?

The taxpayer was a widow (2nd husband died in 2010).

So now I am confused are we discussing 2010 tax return or future 2011 tax return????

[Gary2]

With John and FEDuke. You can't just claim what you wish to maximize tax liability or credits.

Gary2 is one of our most knowledgeable, but he may have inserted the election of a dependency deduction (with the 8332) with the claiming of educational credits or a child's ability to claim himself.

It's bad enough when clients show up (without an 8332) and demand that you contrive dependency status to "ever which of us works out best."

I'm not quite sure where the confusion is, or whether people are jumping in various directions.

There are certainly cases where clients make unreasonable requests concerning dependency. And it's certainly true that if the child is eligible to claim their own exemption, then the parents can't, and vice versa (ignoring the black hole known as the joint return test).

However, in the case of divorced/separated parents, where the custodial parent qualifies to take the dependency exemption, there is flexibility. I have seen divorced couples come in together, fully prepared to have the returns prepared both ways and sign the 8332 on the spot if needed. There's nothing wrong with that. As long as they meet the additional requirements (i.e., be divorced or living apart, have at least six months custody between them, and provide at least half the support between them - even though neither one individually provides half the support), they're free to decide whether or not to use the 8332 based on which gives better results.

Likewise, an unmarried couple living together, with a child that is the legal child of both of them (usually by both being on the birth certificate) is free to decide which one of them claims the dependent. In that case, neither one has to provide any support, as long as the child isn't self-supporting and meets the other tests. Usually it's best to have the higher earner take the dependent, since it's troublesome (albeit possible) for the lower earner to qualify as HoH.

Take a look at Pub. 596, the EITC pub, especially the various examples under Rule 9 (Child cannot be used by more than one person), especially examples 4, 11, and 12.

[newbie]

I agree with Gary2, you can do some planning and make "choices" using the form 8332, however EIC and HOH would not be choices.

But in this case I think the age of the dependent comes into play so you wouldn't be able to use the form 8332.

I also agree with ST MFJ if spouse died in 2011.

[okie1tax]

Filing status

What about Qualifying Widow?

[FEDUKE404]

What IS the question ??

What about Qualifying Widow?

Dang - I'm so confused now I don't really know WHAT the original question was....

1 - Going from MFJ (2010) to QW (2011) ? Gotta have a dependent!!
2 - Claiming/not claiming college age son as a dependent ? The "choose one" issue has already been discussed...
3 - Meeting/not meeting necessary criteria for possible HOH....with or without the dependency issue ? Different set of facts involved.

The way I currently read things, is that for a 2011 tax return "single" status would work, "head of household" status might work, and "qualifying widow" status could be a stretch.

FE

[okie1tax]

Filing status

Dependent child - under the age..or going to school...not provide more than 50% own support. Who else in involved in the "choosing"? She is/was a widow, spouse died in 2010. Can she file for 2011 as HOH? Why would she? QW would be same requirements as HOH with additional stipulation of spouse's death in prior year.

[Gary2]

The problem with QW is that it requires that the child live in the household for the entire year. I have no idea how the death of the taxpayer would affect this, but even if it had no impact, it still seems likely that the son would have changed households before the end of the year. Perhaps not, since the son was away at school, which would count as a temporary absence, assuming that son continued to keep his belongings at his mother's home at least till the end of the year.

[okie1tax]

Filing status

Live with all year... I had not really thought of that. Guess I was thinking of a dependent, born or died during the year, is considered to have lived all year. Don't know if that applies to the taxpayer though.